Seems obvious to me, and I’ve explained as best as I can. I’m going to have to leave it here. Still, I will not color you “the culturally confused stateless white skinned stupid” guy.
I don’t see that it makes all that much difference how many groups there are, or whether the groups tend to blur at the edges. All that matters is that people see themselves as not being part of the same group as others. (One semi-amusing aspect of the SF MB is the enormous amount of energy that the WNs expend dwelling on exactly who is and who is not a true “White” – questions abound about “half-Mexicans” and the like. But despite the ambiguity at the edges, there is enough difference between the groups as a whole to enable them to hate non-whites with gusto).
I would consider “shared values” to be a part of “culture”. And to the extent that two groups develop apart culturally, you cannot assume that they will develop shared values either.
I will grant that there are instances in which multi-culturalism appears to be working – Switzerland being the example that springs to mind (you would know better than me if there are ethnic strains in that country). But there are far more examples in which it has not worked out, e.g. Yugoslavia.
As for what enabled the success of America, you are speculating. America has always been a melting pot, in which the various cultures have blended and intermingled, each contributing to the new shared culture along the way. America has never had – on a long term permanent basis – multiple cultures coexisting peacefully. As has been noted previously (in this thread, I think) many of the groups that have long since intermarried and blended together to form a relatively homogenous group actually hated each other back in the days when they were more culturally distinct.
All who dissent from the party line on racial issues are accused of “hate.” Why? Because this puts the dissenter on the defensive. Facts and statistics about black crime is discarded as a subject and the WN is forced to explain his own character. Rhetorical tactics such as this are old and tired but convenient for people like Libertarian who have nothing else to say.
Whether I hate is entirely irrelevant to the larger issues of racial apartheid or “togetherheid”.
But if you want to call us “haters,” go ahead. We will no longer waste breath trying to explain ourselves to you. We will instead proceed with the facts.
Oh, we know you hate. No question there. The only issue is whether you have any rational, factual basis for that hatred. So far, you guys ain’t shown squat on that.
Not hardly. As has been repeatedly pointed out in this thread–not that either of the WN’s has bothered to address the point–there is a far greater correlation between poverty and crime than there is between race and crime. C’mon, light bulb, take a shot at explaining high crime areas in lilly-white Dublin, like a couple of posters have already challenged your friend to do.
JJIMM SAID: How do, though, WNs who relate race to things like high crime explain all-white countries like Ireland with exactly the same problems, but only white people to blame?
HALOGEN SAYS: Some individuals among all races commit crime. The difference is in the rates among each race.
Crime levels in black parts of the United States and in Africa are very high. Crime levels in White areas are intermediate. Crime levels in East Asia are the lowest.
Blacks have the highest levels of testosterone and the smallest frontal lobes of the brain. East Asians have the least testosterone and largest frontal lobes. Whites and central Asians are intermediate but tend toward the East Asian model.
Frontal brain lobes are responsible for controlling violent and impulsive behavior. Doctors and shrinks posting on this board will recall the famous example of Phineas Gage, an ordinary guy who became a violent criminal after his frontal lobes were separated in a freak mining accident. It is also well known that testosterone increases sex urge and proclivity to violence.
Could it be that the physical differences, which are genetic, are responsible for the behavioral differences?
Naaaah- to acknowledge this possibility would be “hate!” Behavioral differences are solely from Whitey holding everyone down. Yeah…
The record shows that I took Sionnach’s word that she does not hate. I said:
You are arguing with your imagination.
It is also a fact of record that I have actively opposed banning White Nationalists for the views they hold. What we are trying to determine here is what those views are, and hold a civil debate.
As a matter of fact, singling me out to nip at my ankles is just… bizarre!
I have defended Sionnach here, even against the heavy-handedness of a moderator. I welcomed her. I opened a Pit thread opposing the banning of White Nationalists for whatever views they hold.
Anything about Hispanics, Jews, and Arabs in terms of anatomy/physiology and propensity to commits crimes/acts of violence? Inquiring minds want to know…
Without looking at data, I can bet that you guys have found the one white area of the world with crime rates comparable to countless black cities from Detroit to Mogadishu.
And you wave it around like a trophy. Well, here’s the story: Whites commit crime too.
I know I’m not supposed to acknowledge that. I’m supposed to think that all Whites are angels and all nonwhites are devils, so you guys can throw Dublin in my face and leave me in speechless, stuttering shock.
Problem is, the only WNs that take that position are the ones you see on Sally Jesse Raphael and American History X.
Genetics will predispose an individual to crime. Environment will allow the predisposition to manifest itself.
BTW, as I said, Whites are not the least criminal of the races. East Asians are, due to brain structure and testosterone level.
Fair enough. So, what is your current plan, then? How, exactly, do you plan to go about forming this White Nation of yours? It should be self-evident that rhetoric alone isn’t going to accomplish anything.
Or is this just one of those situations where you all sit around daydreaming, “Gee, wouldn’t it be cool if…”?
So, are you guys just a “whites only” club, where you get together and talk about how eee-vil Jews are, or do you have actual plans to form this nation of yours? And, note that I say “yours”, since it should also be obvious that not everyone, whites included, would want to live in that country, were it to exist. Obviously, you’ll have to take that into account, as well.
You have mentioned that you welcome “free trade”; however, do you honestly believe that after you’ve formed your nation and kicked out all of the Jews, blacks, Mexicans and other “immigrants”, that anyone will actually trade with with you?
Quoth the WN: *HALOGEN SAYS: Some individuals among all races commit crime. The difference is in the rates among each race. *
No, one difference is the comparative rates of crime among racial groups. The trick is to devise a statistical method of isolating that single factor–race–and determining whether that one difference accounts for the disparate crime rates. As posters in this thread have repeatedly urged, once you control for other factors, particularly poverty, the racial disparity largely vanishes.
Now, if I had the slightest hope for your intellectual abilities, I would expect either a direct rebuttal of the facts I just alleged, or additional evidence from you that race, and not other factors that are associated with race, accounts for the disparity in crime rates among racial groups.
Given your posts so far, however, I have no hope that such will be forthcoming.
Pretending that J. Philippe Rushton actually made his case (rather than fudging the data) does not make his assertions true. It has nothing to do with avoiding topics and everything to do with performing good science rather than forcing one’s facts to fit one’s expectations.
Gage is a good example of how trauma affects personality. Extrapolating from his experience (and he never became a “violent criminal”–simply a really cranky guy) of traumatic separation to a mostly imaginary measurement of lobe size is the worst sort of abuse of factoids. These are not “facts” that are ignored, but a mish-mash of details and misrepresentations from which you are trying to build a conclusion that your “facts” cannot support.
Similarly with your crime statistics. They are raw numbers of perceived race, separated from the extremely important factors such as poverty, population density, culture, and general social disruption. Rather than “facts” they are incomplete details of a much larger picture that you are carefully filtering so as to view only what you choose.
Once again, cite, please? I strongly suspect the most recent 3 posters are correct in their analysis of the statistical/scientific validity of the methodology of your sources, but without knowing what your sources are, it’s impossible to say.
Hardly, old chap - I mentioned it because I live right in the middle of it. There are plenty of high-crime areas all over Europe that have minimal non-white inhabitants. Dublin happens the one I live in, and it simply struck me that Sionnach’s assertions flew in the face of what I see outside my front door every day.
I trust, then, that you can pinpoint the genes responsible for such criminal predisposition? We have mapped the human genome, after all, so this should be an easy one for you.
As a classic example of genetic versus cultural influences on criminal activity, I would point to the Jewish experience in America. Fact is that during the early years of organized crime, from the great urban street gangs of the 1890s to the early 1940s, Jews were one of the largest elements in organized crime. Some of the most vicious, violent criminals, thugs and gang leaders in this country were Jewish; Monk Eastman, Jack Zelig, Legs Diamond, Dutch Schultz, Bugsy Siegel, Meyer Lansky, Lepke Buchalter and the “Murder Incorporated” gang, the Purple Gang, Moe Dalitz, Longy Zwillman, Mickey Cohen etc. etc. – the list goes on and on. Nowadays to the extent that Jews are represented in crime – and I am sure our friends here can tell all about it – it is generally in “white collar” swindles and accounting fraud. Jews are under-represented in violent crime these days. So which is it - are Jews violent people, prone to aggressive behavior or not? Actually the simple truth is that as long as many Jews lived in tenements and inner city poverty they produced violent criminals. After they moved out to the suburbs they did not. (Much of the Jewish violent crime today is the work of recent immigrants, i.e. Israeli and Russian mobs).
The same could undoubtedly be sid of many other groups.
I’ve spent a great deal of time on this board arguing for the theoretical possibility of genetic differences, on average, between the sociologically defined groups. But determining whether an actual difference exists, on a matter that is so heavily dependent on an assortment of interrelated sociological factors, may well be impossible. Certainly nothing shown here comes even close.
Actually, I thought Gage became just violent and incompetant-he was basically reduced to a two year old.
I STILL have yet to recieve an answer: what about the case of some Europeans in the past not being considered “white”, such as the Irish, the Slavs, Italians, Greeks, etc?
Have some questions. First, I would like to reiterate my first question: In what specific areas is the “white culture” under attack? Second, can either Halogen or Sionnach produce an example of two communites of similar economic status but different racial makeup that have wildly different crime rates? Third, what is the exact definition of a white person? Is someone who is 3/4 white and 1/4 other (black, hispanic, etc.) considered white? Are Armenians white? Indians are considered to come from the same stock as Europeans; are they considered white? Fourth, why is it that you are willing to accept ideas from other cultures while wishing to remain separate from them? Why are the ideas acceptable but the culture unacceptable? Fifth, if you somehow got in charge, deported the Jews and did whatever else, what would happen to the descendents of slaves in this country? And last, how do you feel about interracial unions? What penalties (if any) would you attach to these in your mythical WN country?
What lifestyle of fear?? I live an average and healthy lifestyle, much healthier than when I was a mindless, self-hating liberal punk.
I grew up very liberal in a liberal neighborhood in California. I was so liberal that I was convinced that a gang of Mexicans beating a fellow I knew to death because they assumed that only the “gringos” across the street would call the cops on their loud, late-night partying had “nothing to do with any racial problems”. I was a naive fool in denial, that’s what.
No one brought me into any movement but myself. I have no WN “circle of friends”. Give up on the pathetic pseudo-psychoanalysis, poor ol’ chap. You’re already far off the mark.
That sounds like me when I was a liberal.
LoL! Did you cut and paste that from the ADL website?
This is gonna be great!
I don’t even have company inside of the WN movement yet. Throughout my entire life, my only company has been idiotic liberal punks who have no self-respect or capacity to think for themselves beyond parrotting views that are about as controversial as an MTV (dis)infomercial or commie pamphlet. This advice certainly isn’t turning out too well.
sigh None of this even remotely applies to me. I don’t care about your personal experiences with cliques of romper stomper skins.
What would you think if I started lecturing and spouting psychobabble about “the liberal lifestyle” and “the mind of the liberal” and used all the pathetic and sad ARA-type gutterpunk druggie panhandlers and hippies as an example of how you are?
