The only thing worse than an illinois Nazi is a Canadian one. They are so polite when they hate you.
Having lived in Toronto for most of my life I’ve watched the change in demographics and well, I have to say this:
“SO WHAT?”
I like the fact that I can go out and not see a sea of same faces. I love Diversity of, culture, beliefs, ideas, and cuisine.
Damn it Soionnach I can’t stand the idea of a Bland monchrome monotheistic Country you propose I should live in because we have the same skin pigmentation or that my ancestors came from Europe over 350 years ago. My Culture is Canadian.
My Canada Includes not only Quebec but every other culture that has come into it. Lets face it Our country began as a Mostly French, Catholic colony with small English port towns, in the middle of a pre colonized (Natives) Territory.
The influx of English immigrants that fled here after the American revolution weren’t just White Protestants, they included a great deal of Ex Slaves, freed to help fight against teh American Revolution.
This countries Railway was built by Japanese and Chinese labourers as well as European ones.
We’ve had East Indian immigrants coming into this nation since the early 1900s and many of those families that have been here for over a century have as much right to be called Canadian as any white family.
I also have news for you pal. What makes Western culture so great is not the colour of the skin or just the European ancestry. It is the fact that it adapts and borrows from all other cultures and incorporates the best parts which benifit it, whether it is something as simple as music or food, a few simple words or entire concepts of business, government or innovations.
You and your kind of narrow minded fear mongerers disgust me. I do well my family does well and if there is some Jewish conspiracy, or racial swamping designed to make me a second class citizen it has not affected me, or any of my friends and family negativly. It has enriched my life because I have more choice in life, I have more world views in which to see life. For that I am proud of this country.
If you don’t like it here as it stands move to an island and have your little white community, isolate yourself away the world and pretend that you are better off with out it. Lord knows we’d be better off without you.
Another liberal Jew checking in…and a Spanish-speaking one at that!
Ya know, I was wondering the same thing back in 1995, as I sat int he Novosibirsk regional party meeting of the Liberal Democratic Party of Russia (a minsnomer if ever there was one; it’s Vladimir Zhirinovsky’s party). The speaker, Zhirinovsky’s main political strateist, babbled on and on all morning about how the Jews were controlling world finances, and if the pure-blooded Slavs weren’t careful, they would achieve world domination. It was like listening to Adolf Hitler in, say, 1935, except with a Russian spin.
The best part was that although my group was specially invited by the LDPR, they kicked us out after the morning session (pplitely, more or less, but whatever…). Their rationale? “Well, the afternoon session is for campaign strategy planning, and you know how it is…we can never be sure who the KGB are.” Very weird. I did pick up some campaign literature, though, which is always good for a chuckle or two.
Not at all. 50 years ago, people could actually have a home and family with one breadwinner.
California is also going to be “Nuevo Mexico” in a couple decades, and white people have been moving out of that state in droves. Entire sections of California resemble a third-world country. GDP is not everything. Quality of life is, and the quality of life to be found in the “multicultural” California areas is not worth it, IMO.
Floods of third world immigration.
What’s so great about “culture clashes” that leftists think that a “culture clash” in every white neighborhood is a good thing? Do you think that there is anywhere in the world where white people can live amongst themselves without third-world culture clashes?
You think all the people love and voted for it? “The People” aren’t doing all they can. “The government” is, with “the People’s” tax dollars. Do you think that it’s the duty of white people in every one of their own cities to fork over half of their salaries to programs for immigrants?
It’s a violent culture clash, which is inevitable when you flood an area with people of different cultures. Should every white community in the world have to put up with it? How does this say that “Diversity is strength”? It looks more to me that “Diversity is inherently unstable and causes strife”.
I’m concerned about the direction and beliefs of the leftists, which seems to be less tolerance of the native people who actually live in the community, and more forcing everyone to accept floods of third-worlders with absolutely no respect to the wishes of the present inhabitants.
Yes, and in the past, immigrants were all encouraged to assimilate and didn’t have huge amounts of taxpayer social programs to prop them up and attract social leeches. Every immigration “flood” was followed by an immigration halt so that the immigrants let in would assimilate.
Nowadays, there is no halt of immigration to follow the floods, assimilation is not required and “tolerance” is pushed on the present citizens if they don’t like it. Immigrants are forming seperate nations within the nation such as MEChA, who wants to “reclaim the Aztlan that the gringos stole”. “Multiculturalism” is pushed for instead of assimilation. Therefore, they are not assimilating.
Race is not skin color, and jews are a seperate racial category. It’s a tribe people are born into, not convert to besides a very small few.
Read this article, then tell me that the only difference between jews and whites is “religion”.
Eponymous: You really think that birth control, abortion, and the trend among women to remain single with careers and couples to remain childless or only have 1 child has nothing to do with a drastic decline of birthrates?
20’s
Not at all.
A few, but that was common in both cities and towns where almost all the young mexicans formed hoodlum gangs. Only one person I knew was beaten to death by them.
The point is that none of those incidents did involve wanna-be skins. Even if they had, WN does not = skinhead. You seem to have a very hard time digesting this information. So no, I would not hate WN, whites, or men if that occured, because the majority of whites and WN don’t form hoodlum gangs like the blacks and mestizos do. As a matter of fact, even the young Asians form huge gangs to smuggle drugs.
Yup. My parents are the best.
Merely living in a multicultural society was how I was involved. That is why I think they are inherently unstable and doomed to collapse.
Honors.
I used to take classes, but for now am a stay-at-home wife until I get a part-time job.
The financial situation is good. My husband has a job that pays decently. The standard I live in now is perfectly fine for the moment, besides taxes being incredibly high.
White people around me lost their jobs, but they did alright. The mexicans were not doing “OK”. They formed gangs all the time and acted like hoodlums.
I’ve read bits and pieces of it, but not all. The parts I read were easily understood.
Never read. I’m not really into NS cultism.
Nope.
Nope. What’s the point of going there? I’m not really interested in NS cultism, like I said.
Oh yes, I was the Apt Pupil (sarcasm). Lol… no.
None.
What about John Hron? I have no shared guilt, because I wasn’t there and don’t condone illegal activity. I think it’s a rather stupid tactic of leftists to drag out a random “Skin violence” incident and try to smear every white person who has a certain opinion. As I said, do you want me to spam the board with incidences of brutality on whites by non-white gangs and individuals? Want me to start comparing you to ARA gutterpunks?
[quoute]50 years ago, people could actually have a home and family with one breadwinner.
[/quote]
They still can. Of course, it would be a crappy 50s-style shack, with correspondingly crappy furnishings and accoutrements, but it still doesn’t cost very much to live like people did in the 50s. Most people, however, realize that the 50s sucked ass and are willing to work harder to earn the income that allows them to live in the 21st century.
No one in my family lived in a “shack” in the 50’s. They lived in nice homes in nice communities and could afford to have multiple children while owning that nice home in a nice community with one breadwinner. They also loved growing up in that decade.
Even if California did become “Nuevo Mexico” (never mind the fact that it was part of Mexico in the first place), it doesn’t exactly help your argument that “Nuevo Mexico” has a stronger economy than just about every “white” nation on the planet.
**
Yes it does.
Why do I keep mentioning that? Because it illustrates the logical inconsitency of your claims. “We aren’t all the same, but they are!”
See, you seem to have a very difficult time of your own digesting a couple simple facts:
Correlation does not equate to causation.
Averages do not translate to specifics.
The converse of both of those points are the logical foundations (such as they are) of the entire WN / skinhead / neo-Nazi / whatever-the-hell-you-want-call-yourselves movement. Every one of your arguments is rooted in one of those two fallacies.
There can be good arguments made about the effects of unrestricted immigration, or the decline of the status of “family” and its effects on a nation and its people, and so on.
But you can’t make them.
Why? Because you are too hung up on your neo-Nazi conceptualizations like “third world”, “race”, and “Jew”. Any argument you put forth, because of your chosen philosphy, must start with one of those buzzwords, proceed to “<buzzword> are eeee-vil”, and thence to “they are thus the cause of all that is wrong in the world today.”
You also neglect that fact that such hatred as you and your kind have towards your fellow non-white man will not simply vanish overnight. Suppose you do manage to get your precious “white Nation”. What then? Without the Jews, blacks, Mexicans, multiculturalism, and so on to blame your troubles on, you would, I have no doubt, waste no time descending on the perceived weaker elements of your own “perfect” society. Starting, no doubt, with the disabled and mentally ill, then proceeding upward through various economic classes.
Contrary to what you may believe, the world and its issues cannot be broken down in to black and white (neither literally nor figuratively). Until you realize that social problems are complex (if for no other reason than the people which make up societies are complex), and that there are no easy fixes, your arguments will remain flawed. Likewise, until you come to that realization, you will be unable to think outside of your neo-Nazi box, and will remain nothing more than a brainwashed tool.
Outraged gay guy
Blond wood, Mission-style furniture is utterly FABulous! Next thing I know, you’ll be trashing Douglas Sirk movies!
[/outraged gay guy]
But yeah, in the Fifities people generally had a lower standard of living than they do now.
Sionnach replied to me: *“There’s simply no historical support for any claim of some traditionally ‘95% white’ nation in North America. Maybe you were thinking of Iceland?”
Actually, the accurate number is closer to 90% white in 1950, or 89.5% to be exact.*
No, it isn’t—if you’re talking about the USA (which, from your reference to the (US) 1965 Immigration Act, seems to be the case). Heck, in 1950, black people alone made up about 11% of the entire US population, and that’s not counting the non-negligible minorities of Hispanics, Asians, Jews, Amerindians, and other ethnic groups that you describe as “non-white”. You are not helping your argument (not that anything really could help your argument) by relying on made-up numbers that are not supported by historical fact.
And as other people here have pointed out, the type of racial exclusionism you’re promoting has been practiced in the past against just about every “white” group that you now view as part of a “White Nation”. Your Gaelic username “Sionnach” suggests that you may identify as Irish-descended; well, just check out some opinions of the North American white community in the past about Irish immigrants:
Pretty, huh? “Encouraged to assimilate”, my left foot. And of course, these earlier bigots also had plenty of anecdotal evidence about Irish laziness, Irish drunkenness, Irish gangs, Irish violence, etc., to justify their opposition to Irish immigration and social equality, the same way Sionnach now complains about “hoodlum gangs of blacks and mestizos”.
In short, now that the Irish and other “inferior” ethnic groups have managed to fight their way past this racial bigotry and get themselves racially identified with the “white” groups that despised and oppressed them, their descendants of Sionnach’s sort see nothing wrong with spewing the exact same sort of prejudice and hatred against more recent immigrants. Yup, the Know Nothings are back, all right.
Ah, the central premise of Sionnach’s mindset at last appears.
Well, here’s a news flash: some of us think “different” is good. Interesting. Energizing. “Cool”. Evidently you don’t.
In your laments for an earlier, simpler time back in the 1950s, I detect the querulous tone of the Old Man who thinks things were better back in the Old Days–Gramps, who would rather be left alone with his TV and his Wonder Bread and his newspaper. “We don’t need none of them “furriners” coming in here, with their funny-smelling food, changing things, being different.”
You have the Old Man’s fear of things that are “different”.
End of discussion, as far as I’m concerned. I’ve never been able to convince any Old Men that “different” might be “good”, let alone “better”.
Except to ask, “What do you eat–do you eat spaghetti, tacos, pizza, curry? What comprises the non-multicultural 100% Caucasian diet these days?”
Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, I guess. Campbell’s Tomato soup, with Velveeta sandwiches?
I’m trying to stay out of this discussion as there are not appropriate shower facilities here at work to wash away the smell, but I have to answer both minty and Sionnach.
I imagine that minty is making use of hyperbole, but to refute the claim that families can’t live on one salary anymore, here are my circumstances: one wife, two kids, two cars, one four-bedroom two-bath house, one income. And in a nice neighborhood with none of them kind of people*.
We do not live extra luxurious lives and we don’t have designer labels on all our clothes and the cars aren’t leather-lined European sedans, but we live, believe it or not, within our means. It’s a new idea, but it might catch on.
Of course I was employing some hyperbole, but the basic point was simple enough: the average American lives FAR better today than they did in the 1950s. But if Sionnach wants to go back to the 50s, a good place to start might be selling her computer and cancelling her ISP.
As I pointed out earlier, there are only three groups of immigrants who are not currently embracing assimilation wholeheartedly. (And within those groups there are those who do and those who do not favor assimilation, so one cannot (if one is honest) simply claim that “they” are not assimilating. By using the issues of a couple of specific groups to make wild claims about all of society, you dilute your argument by appearing to fail to understand the issues.
As to the social programs “propping them up,” you’ll note in the link I provided earlier that the net result of immigration is an increase in income (resulting in a net increase in taxes recouped by the government).
There is a valid place for a discussion of immigration reform. Wild calls to throw them all out and lock the gates simply make it hard to take you seriously (except as a threat against my neighbors).
In the past, there were multi-lingual aids as well. I interned at a museum. You had ethnic ghettos and burrows. There was an old sign from the steel plants with warnings in German, Italian, Serbo-Croatian, Polish, etc.
Having grown up and lived in several of the largest cities of the world in immigrant areas, affluent suburbs, inner city hustle and bustle I can tell you that you are deeply mistaken. Your experiences of ethnic strife go well beyond the ordinary. Note that you had a friend killed in gang related violence. That’s a pretty rare occurrence. I have lived in the Arab quarters in Paris and Munich. I lived in Stockholm inner city (one of the most violent million inhabitant cities in the western world). Add lots of time spent in LA, New York, London and a handful other odd places. Out of most people I know I am one of the few that had friends who died violent deaths.
For reasons of my work and in part just by coincidence I have had dealings with the worst imaginable ethnic and criminal gangs ranging from skinheads to Hells Angels to Yugoslavian Mafia. And even then I don’t know that anyone I knew closely was killed in racial violence. I witnessed lots of racial violence, most of it during my year with the skinheads. I was also acquainted with several people who died violent deaths; none of them except a very dear gay friend killed by a psycho homophobe was hate motivated violence. Yours and my experiences are the stuff that most people only read about in the papers.
Your view of criminality and violence is deeply flawed by your personal experiences.
Young lady, you are deeply mistaken as to how deep my understanding of the white supremacy movement goes. I prefer to not engage in debating the semantics of classification since it is a rather internal matter to you guys, for the rest of the world the ideology is what counts. That some are directly criminal and others are not is incidental. The fact that you use the, in White Nationalist circles, oft-brandied term ‘wanna-be’ is very telling. As most of the Aryan ‘elite’ you look to the more unruly elements of your movement as not worthy, not really part of your crowd. I have news for you; it’s the other way around, you are part of their movement. In the end, whatever group or level you choose to ascribe to it’s just another shade of neo-Nazism.
That aside you just contradicted yourself. White ethnically constructed hoodlum gangs are usually referred to as skinheads - and don’t even get me started on whether or not they engage in criminal activities.
Once again I have to point out that your experiences of ethnic based and/or gang related violence goes far beyond the ordinary.
As an aside; is your husband of the same ideological conviction as you are?
And the white little fellows joined the movement – sometimes as skinheads, or became ‘gutter punks’. Right?
You should read all of it. It describes your ideology. When you do keep in mind what it says about you as a non-German.
No cultism involved, dear. If “Mein Kampf” is a defining document of your ideology, this one is a founding one. Read it and learn what your ideology really preaches and get back to us on all of the hand-wringing you’ve been doing regarding who gets to live and who doesn’t, who gets sterilized and who doesn’t and all that. Don’t tell me about the shades of brown-shirt politics. Either you are with them or you’re against.
But the Holocaust is still just a fabrication? Yet you didn’t check for yourself. Hmmm… I checked. The smell of burnt flesh and the sweet smell of molten human fat still emanates from the wooden beams in the crematoriums. The mountains of human hair, glasses, shoes, dentures, and so on at Auschwitz all came from a collective of hairdressers, second hand stores and the Polish Dentist Association, or what?
Well… I didn’t suggest you go there to celebrate Nazism. I’d be rather surprised if that’s what would happen. I’d rather expect you to be shocked at what you would find out about the origins of your ideology. It’s not pretty to see the NSDAP from the inside so to say. In any case Berchtesgaden is an absolutely gorgeous spot on Earth so if you happen by I recommend a visit.
Again you misunderstand my motive. I have met a few actually. If you would gain their trust enough for them to tell you about it all I can assure you that it would be lesson in everything except the greatness of the ‘white race.’ Out of the ones I have met and who have told me their stories all had deeply changed and all told of the absolute horror of what they witnessed. I especially note the uncle of a very good friend who ended up in concentration camp himself. He started out as a good little convicted White Nationalist, but somewhere around early 1943 he couldn’t take it anymore. He was stationed in Amsterdam leading a small unit that was in charge of the deportation of Jews in parts of the city. Instead of doing his job he started helping Jews get out of the country. He managed to save a few thousand from deportation to the death camps. He was eventually found out when a subordinate officer squealed on him, and spent the rest of the war in Dachau. Fascinating man, since he can tell you the story from all sides. You should meet him, I doubt that you’d get along very well though – I mean you guys already went after him for being Jew-lover.
Is that your basis for disbelieving the Holocaust? That you haven’t met any survivors?
I’m not smearing anyone of any specific skin color for anything. I am merely saying that the guys who killed John Hron belong to the same movement as you. They used the same arguments to motivate their killing another human being as you do to advocate oppression, deportation and a variety of other things that are illegal according to international law. You’re all advocating breaking laws, the only difference is that they took the matter to a rather more practical level and actually went ahead with their plans. If it wasn’t for you and the other somewhat less maladjusted elements in your movement these hoodlums wouldn’t have a foot to stand on and most likely John would be alive today. Maybe these guys were doomed to be rotten apples anyway, but they would sure enough be less dangerous to society if they wouldn’t have been urged on by the disgusting messages of hatred and intolerance forwarded by the mass-psychosis that you all embrace.
You’re spinning. Drink some water. Take a Tylenol or something. I repeat: John Hron, a young white boy, was murdered by White Nationalists because they perceived him as being of a different race and because he stood up against your ideology. Whatever other crime that happened to have involved several ethnicities is completely irrelevant, especially since no one will claim, certainly I won’t, that two wrongs makes a right.
As for the last little silliness, I do not support any agenda of revolution. I despise extreme left anarcho-revolutionism almost as much as I despise your ideology.
Yes, ethnic gang activity is so energizing and “cool”. People stabbing each other and smuggling drugs around is “cool”. I haven’t seen anyone here that thinks about the future of their nation. All they care about is “me me me” (I can’t live without Ethiopian Stew) and “now now now” (I’m fine now, who cares about future generations?) and “coolness”. Who cares about high crime and violence that follows immigration floods? It’s all “cool”.
Good for you, but that would be actually be a luxury for many people. What job do you have? How many years of university traning did it take?
I eat anything I can cook, which is a lot of very good food. I don’t need the help of immigrants to cook any of it. I also take note that some of you people are totally brainwashed into thinking that people of European descent have no worthy culture of their own. According to the way some of you go on, America and Europe must have been really awful places before they started importing asians, mexicans, africans, and muslims.
I would cancel my ISP instantly if it were accompanied by living in a nation like that which existed in the 1950’s.
The largest groups of immigrants happen to be the ones that want to carve nations within a nation.
How is my view of criminality flawed when my view is backed up by extremely high rates of non-white on white violence compared to white on non-white violence? It looks to me that my view is grounded in reality while your view likely comes from “spending some time” in a few cosmopolite areas enjoying some “exciting multicultural cuisine”, then claiming that there is no high rate of ethnic crime.
More cut-and-pasting from ADL? This is a common tactic by you people, and it’s frankly getting old. Take every pro-white group out there, pull out the “violent skinhead” bogeyman, then say that all pro-white groups are violent skins. End result: Whites are too indimidated and cowed to stand up for themselves because they don’t want to be called “nazis” by the almighty “enlightened” liberal elite.
Actually, my experiences were so normal that they were cliche.
We both sway in the same direction, but have different opinions on some minor details. He’s more moderate than I on some points, yet he grew up in a safer neighborhood and went to better schools (which were majority white). When he went to California he thought the place was pretty dirty and ridiculous, so if he grew up there he would probably be less moderate.
Whites formed gangs as self-defense from the mestizo hoodlums. When my mother was growing up in the city, where were no white or brown gangs because there was no huge immigrant culture.
No, it does not describe “my” ideology. If you care to keep up this conversation, you will refrain from this incessant attempt to pigeon-hole me into the NS cult.
“My ideology” was common until a few decades ago in the US. No Mein Kampf involved. My ideology stems from a belief that western civilization must be preserved and that my children must grow up in safe neighborhoods in a safe nation with a government that works for their interests, and not for the interests of destroying the nation by flooding it with third-world immigrants and imposing cultural marxism on everyone.
Yes, and Elie Weasel said he saw geysers of blood. So what?
What does all this have to do with preserving my culture in a world where all whites will be a minority in their own nation in the future?
No. What does the “holocaust” have to do with preserving Western civilization in a world where our countries will all be paralyzed by competing nationalities and ethnicities?
No, they did not. Any movement I join does not advocate criminal activity. Do yell at environmentalist groups because some fringe activists are guilty of bombing?
There is no such thing as “international law”. It’s a fraud, and you’re a fool if you believe it unless you like the idea of “One World Government”, which many leftists seem to be love.
What laws? Are you against the idea of communities making their own immigration laws?
Every group has a violent fringe. According to you, there should be no political action because of a violent fringe. You not only support One World Government, but total thought tyranny.
My ideology does not include violenty breaking the laws. According to your logic, the EPA is guilty because of the actions of Earth First.
In that case, you are against the abolishing of affirmative action, you are against the right of communities to self-determination and rights to live only amongst their own people if they like, you are against the rights of whites to make a stand against disproportionate interracial crime against them, you are against the rights of people within a nation to stop outright invasions of non-assimilating immigrants even if they have criminal records.
By the way, does every marxist, socialist, communist who comes to this board get berated for being guilty for the crimes of Bolshevism, Stalin and Mao?
my irony meter just EXPLODED
Sionnach, will you listen to yourself? Are any of the following statements “fair”?
You are coming across as a nasty, sneering, whining teenager with no real wish to debate, especially when you say such completely stupid things as, “There’s no such thing as international law.”
Needless to say, there’s a limit to the amount of time we here at the SDMB have to spend talking to nasty, sneering, whining teenagers with no real wish to debate.
