White Pride

In My Humble Opinion
1

RACISTS AND FLAMING-TONGUED REACTORS GO AWAY! THIS IS A QUESTION FOR THINKING PEOPLE.

I have a question for all of y’all out there.

Does it seem racist to be proud of ones own race? I mean, white people conquered the known world… that’s a pretty big accomplishment. I know conquest today does not hold the same value that it once did amoung the general population, but that is beside the point. I do not wish that the accomplishments of my race to outshadow that of any others.

Do y’all consider black pride and/or white pride to be racist, and if so why. Also, do you see any difference in the wrongness or rightness of the two?

2

I’m really sick of this White Pride nonsense, because they’re taking credit for things that were really done by…THE SCOTS!!!

That’s right! Every worthwhile invention was created by SCOTTISH PEOPLE! I’ll give you some examples…

  1. Inventor of the Steam Engine - James Watt - SCOTTISH!

  2. Inventor of Television - John Logie Baird - SCOTTISH!

  3. Inventor of the Third Entry - Opal! - Wants to be SCOTTISH!

  4. Inventor of Radio - MacRoni - Obviously SCOTTISH!

I think that’s enough to conclusively prove my point; so enough of this “White Pride” crap! The Scottish are the True Master Race, and it’s about time you all bloody admitted it!

So, addressing the OP; it’s fine to be proud of your race, as long as the race in question is Scottish. This would appear to be self-evident.

3

My honest opinion is yes.

IMO distinguishing between the races at all is a form of racism and a little sad.

We are each individual and, as trite as it may sound, if we are to be judged let it be on our own actions and words.

Not on the fact we share skin colour or genetic material with others.

4

I’m with Dylan on this one.

Alexander Graham Bell was SCOTTISH.

James Watt invented the steam engine.

Alexander Fleming invented penicillin.

Alexander Bain invented the first fax machine.

Or maybe it’s guys that are named Alexander?

5

dylan_73 and feynn may be closer to the central problem than they really meant to be! :wink:

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a4_196.html

But in all seriousness guys, master-races don’t eat haggis. Sorry. :smiley:

6

What?! Even our food is the “Great Cheiftan o’ the pudding-race”!

Give it up, man! Even Collounsbury must admit defeat in the face of this kind of evidence! :wink:

7

…and as we all know, a scots natural skin colour is not white but a very light blue.

8

I am certainly proud to be partly descended from those kilt wearin’, haggis eatin’, terrorizors of sheep. Some Swedes, French, Spanish, English, and Irish also contributed to the gene pool from which I originated. I actually wish that more of the contributors weren’t so melanin challenged so I could get a semlance of a tan and stop glowing in the dark.

From where I sit it would be hard to label me a racist. I am the only “white” person in my family although there is a little Scottish in all of us. This would be proof that Scots do not just save their affection for sheep.

But seriously…

When pride in one’s own race causes one to discount the accomplishments of other races or look upon other races as being inferior to one’s own we have a problem.

9

I think the central problem lies in the very concept of “race”. I’m descended from British, Scots, and Irish (Protestants) and therefore qualify as “white”. But as one example, do I have any claim on the rich historical musical culture of the “white race” when in fact it’s largely Germans, Austrians, and Italians who made the should be credited with it?

And when you say “white people” conquered most of the world, well, the British established a substantial empire, and to a lessor extent the French and Dutch, but what about the Germans? They certainly tried to do so, but failed. And where to the Spanish fit in? They certainly meet your criterion of conquerers, but are they members of the “white race”? I’m not sure that the Aryan Nations are looking for people of Spanish descent when they go on recruiting drives.

The problem is that there is such tremendous variability within what is ostensibly a “race” that “intra-racial” differences can be as great as “inter-racial” differences. As a unilingual anglophone, I can no more understand German or Russian than I can Japanese.

And history certainly shows that “intra-racial” hatred can be as fierce as “inter-racial” hatred. As Jimy Walker put it, “Northern Ireland just goes to show that when there’s no [blacks] or [Mexicans] to kick around that white people can improvise.”

I’m sure someone can put it more sophisticated than this, but the essential flaw is that the very concept of race is faulty.

10

Well, it does get cold in winter…

Well, it does get cold in winter…

:slight_smile:
[serious mode on]
It does seem a bit daft to be proud of something based on how good someone else’s tan is. If I did something wonderous for the world, why should a “white” person feel any more proud of it than a “black” person? It really doesn’t make sense…it’s mine…not yours! Mine I say!!
[/serious mode off, since it’s obviously broken anyway]

11

I’ve always felt uncomfortable with racial pride. I certainly understand being proud for another human being’s accomplishments, especially if said human being is “one of us,” with “us” meaning whatever group contains myself and the accomplished person. (I’m thinking here of my AP Calculus students – they’re great!)

But I’ve been taught (and believe) that lots of Caucasian cultures have been imperialistic, conquering swine. So I’m not going to feel pride for the white race as conquerers. But I can feel pride for my Scottish ancestors, who created the Scottish culture.

I suppose pride is, for me, simply a matter of asking “Would I be proud of this particular achievement?” When African-Americans talk of Black Pride, I imagine that overcoming years and years of still-continuing oppression counts as something of which to be proud. When my Mexican students glory in the elements of their culture (visual arts, culinary triumphs, music), they are doing so rightfully.

To answer the OP: Do I consider black pride/white pride to be racist? It depends on what the pride is for.

12

Seeing as I didn’t have the option of selecting my race or my ancestors, or even have the opportunity to meet any ancestors above my great grandmother on my family tree, I don’t see how I can take credit for any of their accomplishments or failures. While I do look at some of their actions with interest, I can’t say I’m proud of them.

13

Race actually is a pretty clearly distinguishable feature. Race refers to traits transmittable by genetic descent through generations. As such, scientists generally describe three races: Caucasian, Mongol and Negro. Where it gets confusing is when different ethnic groups (defined as the affiliation of a large group of people classed according to common religion, customs, behaviors, and beliefs) are confussed as different races. Hitler for example goofed according to this taxonomy because he believed that whites (a genetic determination) were superior to Jews and other ethnic groups (a cultural designation). Clearly with only three recognized races some folks just don’t seem to fit well into any of them, but I would submit that this is at least as much a function of ill-defined boundaries between races. For example, natives of Central and South American would be classified as Mongol although they appear very different from what most of us would think of as Mongol–those living in and around present-day Mongolia or, Asians, if you will.

Now back to the question of it is okay to feel white pride or is it racist? My own take is that it is as meaningless a claim as black pride is or as blue-eyed pride, freckled-pride or over-six-feet-tall pride would be. Taking pride in one’s genetic inheritence is an odd thing. However, if by white pride someone means “Look at what my people (Scots, Danes, Spaniards, etc.) have done–are we not a great people?” Then there may be more claim to the pride aspect since culture defines what is considered worthy of achievement and culture similarly defines what an ethnic group is. Of course all these achievements any single group might take pride in (whether white, black, Jewish, Asian or Aboriginal Australian), such as domesticating livestock, conquering other peoples, and/or making the first sno-cone machine arise largely from environmental factors rather than anything at all having to do with the people themselves. Jared Diamond gives a much more detailed account of all this in his book, “Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies.”

14

At Denver Community College, the undersides of stairwells presented large flat blank areas angled 45 degrees from the floor. These overhead spaces were very inviting to muralists. Just begging to be painted. The Mexican mural tradition is alive and well in Colorado. Four murals were painted, one for each “race”, with very mixed results.

The Latin American and American Indian murals had the most brilliant design and execution.

The former showed a giant maize plant as the center vertical line, growing up through the body of a dead conquistador. On either side of it stood a young Chicano man and woman, facing each other and linking hands. It communicated a clear meaning about the perennial resurgence and vitality of La Raza and the natural world.

The latter was designed along four quadrants, representing the fourfold division of American Indian cosmology, each quadrant with its appropriate symbol (buffalo head, etc.), with a background of the starry night sky. It was a well-composed homage to Indian culture.

The Afro-Black mural was less coherent in design, but at least had plenty of bold colorful verve that made for good eye candy.

The “White” mural was a complete artistic failure. Just an incoherent jumble of small bland images with no thematic organization whatever. Einstein and a girl in a dirndl stood out, otherwise it made no impression.

So I guess I’m saying that “White” doesn’t really stand for anything or mean anything definite. It’s just an empty abstraction.

15

Well, I’m 100% Irish (as far as I know), so I guess I qualify as white. But somehow, I have a hard time looking at the Greeks, the English, the Austrians, the Italians, the Arabs, the Jews, the Russians and the Irish as one, big white race that I should be “proud” to belong to! Obviously, there are people to admire in all those cultures, but there’s no common thread connecting all those groups. There’s no common ethos, no shared language, no shared values to speak of. So, while I certainly admire Aristophanes, Albert Einstein, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Sir Isaac Newton, Michel de Montaigne, and Yuri Gagarin, I can’t imagine why I should be “proud” of any of those men, just because we’re all part of some vaguely defined white race.

Now, even when an Irishman or Irish-American accomplishes some great feat, my joy and pride are temporary and limited. I may cheer when an Irish athlete wins a medal, or when Roddy Doyle wins a Booker Prize, but really, how proud SHOULD I be? Am I somehow better off, or a more admnirable person, just because someone of the same ancestry did something great? Come on, Roddy Doyle writes great novels, I don’t! When the Grammies salute U2, they’re saluting the 4 guys in the band! They’re not honoring ME!

Self-esteem based on the accomplishments of your countrymen is pretty silly to begin with. It’s even sillier when you base your pride and self-esteem on the accomplishments of ANYONE who happens to share your skin tone.

I’m perfectly content to be white. But “Proud”? What the hell for? It’s not as if I DID anything to deserve the “honor” of being white! Do you really expect me to be “proud” of an accident of birth?

16

I know the OP explicitly said that s/he didn’t mean to denigrate the accomplishments of other races, and I’m not accusing anyone of anything…

People of European descent are in the majority in the USA, and the culture is definitely slanted in our direction. Identity movements among minority groups, like black pride and latino/a pride are usually connected with a desire to keep people who are members of these groups from feeling like they don’t count because they’re minorities.

When people talk about white pride, on the other hand, it’s overwhelmingly more often a reaction to non-white people feeling pride in who they are. These “Christian Identity Groups” IMHO are full of people who feel threatened by the fact that “whiteskin privilege” (which does very definitely exist, by the way) is being deligitimized in our time.

As Jomo Mojo has kinda said, to be “white” in America is meaningless. It implies a lack of identity rather than an identity in itself. To be white is simply to not be black or latino/a or Asian. Therefore, when you say “I’m proud to be white”, no matter how you look at it, what you’re really saying is “I’m proud not to be black, latino, etc.” On the other hand, I think it’s legitimate to say “I’m proud to be Irish” or “I’m proud of my German ancestry” or “I’m proud that my ancestors came over on the Mayflower”. Those things all set a person apart from the rest, while being “white” does not.

I think, if you’re white but not generally a racist person, there’s no reason to feel threatened by minority identity groups unless they’re explicitly saying “Kill Whitey!” Otherwise, it’s all good, baby.

17

What he said.

Seriously, I mean, don’t true White Supremists say that Slavs aren’t really white? Slavs have white skin, but they aren’t “white” white, are they? Same with Hungarians. And stuff.

Besides, you’re all wrong. It’s the SLAVS who are the greatest. See, Slav means “Glory” or “Word.” Hehehehehhehe
Slavophiles unite!
Pierogie and vodka for all!

18

and don’t forget that them there white folk ended slavery. Well at least in this country and most if not all europian countries.

How 'bout a white folk ended slavery day or month for that matter.

19

Serious answer:

I don’t think racial (or cultural) pride in itself is a bad thing. I’m Chinese, and I don’t have a problem with mentioning that Chinese folk invented gunpower, for instance.

The problem is when you use that pride as a tool for belittling others, and/or for ignoring the deficiencies in your own group. Everybody’s got their good and their bad backgrounds, and to ignore any of that is being small-minded.
{B}Not-so-serious answer:**

Scots are smurfs?!? Go figure! :smiley:

20

You win thirty free wonko points!

I’ve noticed myself, that just about every major invention that is used in our modern world was invented by a member of the human race. Skin color, and other differences between members of the human race are largely unimportant. I think that personal behavior differences make a bigger difference. We are all human. [/rant]