In a multicultural, pluralistic world no culture is supposed to be judged superior to another. This way of thinking depends on rejecting Western cultural dominance. Does that mean, then, that Westerners are now free to trace their roots and celebrate their heritage they way African-Americans have theirs, for instance? European culture is Greco-Roman. Romans invaded Greece and absorbed Greek philosophies and lifestyles and then invaded Britain. So, instead of cornrows and dreadlocks why don’t Europeans have the hairstyles depicted in Greek artwork or Roman coins? Would that be a bad thing? Or just a Versace thing?
When were they not free to do this? Genealogy research is not new nor has it been restricted to black americans since the mid 1970’s after a popular mini-series aired on ABC!
My white roots never passed through the Roman Empire or Greece, that I have ever found. Strictly Estonian in the past millenium, and before that Nordic.
Ancient Estonian and Nordic hairstyles were probably “up-do’s” though. How many European women do their hair that way now? Why were hairdressing skills never handed down through the generations by women anyway?
You have the equation exactely backwards. Where do you think all those musty old genealogy tomes come from? Black Americans started their roots search in response to the DAR kinda stuff. Really, this is a dumb assertion. Anyone ever systematically rename your ancestors?
Shrug. So the classicists like to claim. I’d take a different analysis. Anyways, you’re confusing “European” with Western European and even Anglo culture. And even then this makes little sense. Romanized Celts were more or less overrun but distinctly un-romanized Scandinavians and Angles, Jutes and Saxons. Their ‘greco-Roman’ heritage comes, if we can make this claim with a straight face, from Xtianization and latter elite cultural developments. Same goes for most of Northern Europe. I’d go on but this is just silly.
??? What on earth are you talking about??? Which hairstyles? And why would decendants of Germanic invaders want to copy some ancient mediterranean hairstyles? What nonesense is this?
As for your question about hairstyles, what on earth do you mean? Why would people conserve the same hairstyle --as if there was but one-- for millenia? It’s just a silly concept.
**
I’m curious as to how far Americans of African descent have been able to trace their family history. My great uncle did a lot of research on our family history going back a few hundred years. But he did this on his own time after he retired and it took him many years. I don’t imagine most slave traders kept detailed records of lineage. In fact finding the tribe of origin might even be an almost impossible act.
Anyone have any idea how far African Americans can trace their roots?
Marc
Collounsbury: You over-analysed my post. All I’m asking is if it’s all right to take an interest in your heritage if you are white. The science writer Ziaddun Zardar has pointed out that by the year 3000 only 3 people out of 100 in the world will be European. That’s a good reason as far as I’m concerned.
But there are others. Maori people in my country have a very strong culture. But Europeans have almost no culture. Immigrants to this country from Europe seem to have cut all cultural connections 200 years ago. There is no Morris dancing, no pagan rituals, no Thanksgivings, no Independence Days etc. There is a certain kind of emptiness that could well do with a re-establishment of some sort. And if all there is to go on is a few Greek statues so be it.
About hairstyles: Yes, it’s all silly but that never stopped me, so without justifying myself I’ll ask these further questions: Why does Camille Paglia, as an advocate of western culture, not adopt a greco-roman hairstyle? Why are western women, of a certain age, only considered socially respectable with a permed, short and curly hairstyle? Women of other cultures have long hair throughout their lives with no cost to their reputations.
In answer to your question: why would people conserve a hairstyle for millennia? Well, they did. Western women didn’t have short hair until this century.
Not terribly far to my understanding. Poor records, in general.
Well in general there was no inquiry as to the person’s family history. And it appears that Southern Anglos were singularly uninterested, but I just read an article a few months back on a historian working from records from New Orleans. Apparently the French and Creole traders kept much, much better records. Quite detialed really. For folks descending from Louisiana stock, there may be some hope of knowing more precisely from where the most distant ancestors came. Only the very rare few will ever be able to go further – say if they accidentally find out they descend from some Muslims in West Africa. In that case there are known to be local records going back centuries, although then they’ll have to learn to read Arabic in order to access them.
Think your grandpa had challenges, eh?!
Ethnic group, not tribe, but in any case, without perhaps genetic testing, impossible in most cases. Need a lot of genetic testing to nail things down also (and one may only be able to tell probabilities of ancestral origins among certain peoples.)
G Nome: I understood your question and I repeat its plain silly. Why shouldn’t it be “all right” – who ever said otherwise? The only thing that anyone might have said ever that is not alright is getting into that “I’m superior and have the right to rule the world” white supremecist nonesense. I never have felt any pressure not to investigate my family. But then they’ve tediously kept extensive geneological records for several hundred years. Too much time on their hands.
I have no idea what on earth your concern about Ziaddun Zardar’s comment is. Frankly by the year 3000 anything could happen, demography has a hard enough time predicting 50 years in the future, let alone 1000.
I’m also puzzled by your claim white New Zealander’s have no culture… That’s just silly. What on earth do you want? Why the focus on Greeks? What the hell do classical Greeks have to do with Anglo New Zealanders. Why on earth would Camille Paglia want to wear a Greco-Roman haircut? What possible logical reason is there. Ah bother this is just too silly.
when I saw this thread, I thought, “I hope that’s more on the issue of hair turning white from fright. Surely it’s not someone so silly as to…”
[sigh]
so, how 'bout them Yankees? any predictions?
All the way!!!
(Well… never mind.)
As my father said when we asked him why the family seemed to have turned its collective back on our heritage:
“If we had liked the Old Country that much, we would have stayed there.”
Generally, white folk in north america are the majority, and form the majority culture, so they really don’t need to search for their roots: they’re living them.
But I’ve found that in the true north strong and free (Canada, eh) white people do have a stronger connection to the old country, whichever one that is. In my native Quebec you’ve got millions of people who don’t even speak the same language as the rest of the country, and have a very strong grip on old traditions (just the fun ones though, they ditched the irritating ones in the 60s 
)
There’s a similar thing going on in the Prairies, with lots of Ukranian stock.
But as for searching out ancestry in the old country, I’m the son of immigrants, so I just call my relatives in England and Norway 
G. Nome - I suspect you’ve just encountered a cultural differece that is independent of race. I didn’t look at your profile so it wasn’t until pretty far down this thread that I realized where you are.
Here in the USA, white folks have been examining their European roots for more than 200 years. It was a matter of pride among the elite to have come from “good” western European stock.
For those of us whose ancestors arrived in the US more recently, kunilou’s father’s response is probably fairly typical. Especially for those of us with Central and Eastern European roots. Many of us who are a couple of generations removed from the old country, however, are curious and interested in learning where we came from and how we got where we are.
Someone above also made the point that it must be extemely difficult to try to trace black ancestors who were forcibly removed from their homelands as slaves. I’ve always had the impression that genealogy was much more popular among whites - possibly in part because it is so daunting for most blacks.
As the proud descendent of Central European peasants, I’m working hard to find my white roots.
Um, Europeans have no cultural heritage?
Um, I’m Irish German on my father’s side, Polish Hungarian Slovak on my mom’s side. To say that there is no “culture” in Europe is asinine.
Have you ever been to the former Soviet Union?
Ummmm… what’s that one holiday in March where they dye the river green, get drunk, fight, puke, go to church, have a parade, get drunk, fight, puke, puke, fight, and continue to drink?
Yes, of course it’s all right for us white folk to trace our cultural heritage. It’s actually easier. We do it all the time. I live in Cincinnati. Seems like we can’t go a week without having some permutation of Oktoberfest. I actually enjoy the Black “cultural heritage” festivals more. A few years ago, during the annual Jazz festival, James Brown played. Tell me, which one would you pick: the Godfather or a polka band? Or Riverdance, for that matter? God, I’m so sick of the Chieftans.
Ahhhhhhh, now I understand.
::blinks incredulously::
G Nome lives in a parallel universe, somewhere far far away from reality as we know it.
Where to start? European culture is dominant in NZ. The Maori renaissance only began in the '70s and certainly it is not dominant in NZ. If it were, then there would be no difficulty with honouring the Treaty of Waitangi and Maoritanga would be everywhere. Maori would be the primary language. How much Maori do you know, G Nome?
NZ is afflicted with Morris dancers. There’s genealogical societies all over the place. There’s pagan rituals. Granted weirdly enough we don’t celebrate Independence Day or Thanksgiving Day ::rolleyes:: Why on earth would NZ celebrate a US holiday? Last I looked at an NZ calendar, Anzac day and Waitangi Day were there.
Well, well, well. Can you please provide more info on Ziaddun Zardar? I think you made him up and are doing some more silly trolling.
Can Europeans be equal parties in a multicultural society or is any support of European culture a support of a dominant culture? That’s where I’m coming from. If everyone’s equal and if European culture is Greco-Roman in origin then affirmative action for Europeans would mean more nude sports and mentoring programs for boys, and the provision of nice frocks and long hairstyles for women. Effetes would be empowered. But I think that, in truth, not that much is really known about ancient Greece. Most of it (man-boy love and all) is just made up.
Ziaddin Sardar (I misspelt his name the first time - sorry) is the greatest science writer in the world. There would be no-one incapable of understanding him. He writes for the English magazine The New Statesman and it’s easy to search for stuff on him on the internet - if you have the right spelling.
Fuck. The right spelling is
Z I A U D D I N S A R D A R