That’s a damn good point, Aesiron. Also, if Cyclops can start out with a mountain-shattering blast (and I didn’t think he was that damn powerful), wouldn’s the only ones left standing be Cyclops, Phoenix (assuming her shields work), Shadowcat and any fliers?
Could Gambit be able to charge up Wolverine to the fullest snd kill him by letting him off like a card of his?
Cyclops has always been described as having that level of power. It is pretty much the standard explination given for why he has to be so careful. It even made it into the X-Men movie.
I seem to remember reading an X-Men comic book where Cyclops said something along the lines of if he closed his eyes and tried to shoot his optic blasts with all his might that he’d wind up blowing the back of his skull off.
I thought Cyclops was immune to his own powers, i.e., he wouldn’t be able to hurt himself with his optic blasts.
I’m also pretty sure that Gambit can only charge up non-living objects, but then again, I’ve never been a reader of the comic books.
Assuming Mimic is disallowed, I’d say Jean (non-cosmic Phoenix) wins.
There’s the question of speed. While Cyclops is fiddling with the controls for his visor and Storm is trying to get those air massess moving, Jean thinks at them “Go into a coma” and turns their brains off leaving the battlefield littered with X-Vegetables and Professor X. Jean is good enough of a psychic to hold Professor X off for at least a few seconds, and uses those few seconds to telekinetically grab his heart and squeeze it 'till it explodes.
End of problem.
Fenris
Jean’s not that good, Fenris. Plus, all the X-Men are fairly well trained in resisting psychic assault. It used to be a regular class… see your OHOTMUDE. She’s also not able to grab the heart inside someone’s chest.
Regarding Wolvie’s “indestructible” skeleton: Quite frankly, it’s not. We have clear evidence from the AoA (an alternate timeline, but adamantium is still adamantium) that one of Cyclops’s optic blasts fried Wolvie’s hand off, including the bones (though not, of course, the claws, which were retracted). So at least Cyclops’s power can destroy adamantium.
Probably not as good as Fenris described, but she’s really damned close. Primarily, all she has to do is first use her power to get everyone to ignore her for a while… that, I believe, is doable on her part (and I’d like to think that she’s quick-witted enough to do this… most of the tactics described above, I think, would not be put into operation quick enough to be of any use). Once she accomplishes that, she pretty much throws up a force field around herself to deflect any stray shots, and then waits the fight out for everyone to take themselves out. Then, near the end, she finishes up what’s left.
I’ll repeat: You can’t beat a (strong) telepath with sheer physical strength.
It’d take him too long - see in X-men #1 (from memory) - the basketball game, when he spends several seconds charging up the basketball to throw it at Rogue. It’d take him a lot longer to charge up Wolverine - by which time he’s been skewered.
Gambit can’t charge living things anymore, but what about adamantium? Not that he would get a chance, but he could likely charge up Wolverine’s claws, and perhaps all the adamantium in his body, as it is non living. Exploding skeleton… thats got to hurt.
I think Jean would win most often, but if Cyclops and Iceman considered her a bigger threat and teamed up, they would probably defeat her. Cyclops is a very fast quick draw, and Jean might not be able to focus on attacking people’s minds if she is busy blocking a mountain levelling blast combined with trying to protect herself from extremely freezing temperatures and ice. The X Men have good enough telepathic resistance that she can’t stop them too easily, especially if they team up. But if Cyclops and Iceman attack each other, Jean will surely win.
I’ve always suspected that Gambit’s limitations on charging up living matter was primarily a subconscious limitation against unnecessary cruelty… despite all his adventures and misadventures, Remy’s been a nice guy. That fact that it’s conclusively proven that the capability to charge living matter exists supports that idea.
That’s the other thing… even if she may not be able to control the others’ minds, she WILL at least be able to sense what they’re planning on doing. If anyone’s going to focus on her, she’ll know it, and she’ll be able to react quicker… because she doesn’t need to dodge through a sea of fighting mutants in order to launch an attack on someone. Cyclops, on the other hand, does. He needs to make sure nobody’ll take him out from the side while he’s preparing to blast Jean.
Actually, the blast just severed the tendons, I think. Cyc, especially one-eyed Cyc, does not have the raw power to destroy Adamantium. Havok is reported to have done it supercharged, but it was probably secondary Adamantium, and a bad writer.
Jean getting everyone to ignore her? Totally doable. Mass mind control from a standing start? Not an exhibited power stunt.
Cyclops might have the power to melt adamantium, if his power level is the same as that of Havoks - in Mutant X no. 5(?) Havok uses up nearly all of his power and melts a big hole in a door made of adamantium… and wolverine did get killed in one of those ‘days of future past’ storylines by a sentinel. All that was left was a skeleton, of which kitty pryde took one of his claws (still has?).
And with the shadowcat/wolverine showdown, while shadowcat can phase, the molecules of adamantium are so tightly packed or something that it actually seroiusly hurts a phased cat (as seen in one of the classic x-men comics when they first fight, as well as the comic when wolvy gets married to viper). Therefore a wolverine win! (yay)
One thing to remember also: Everyone is going to be fighting blind. The very first thing that Storm is going to do is fill the room with dense pea-soup fog (it’s been pretty well established that she can do this indoors, right?). Iceman might also be able to do so (or the equivalent), but I’m not all that familiar with his powers. So who can fight effectively while blinded? Wolverine’s other senses will be useful here, and I imagine that Jean would be able to track the others telepathically, but would anybody else be able to manage it?
I still say that, due to the more powerful mind control interfering, Jean wouldn’t be able to just put everyone else into a coma, or marionette them against each other, but I can accept her tweaking their minds just enough that they don’t notice her. Except that she’s going to have to go on the offensive eventually, and I don’t think that it’s possible to maintain an SEP field while attacking. Besides, is she subtle enough for that?
And Peyote, believe it or not, I’ve never owned a single comic book, and read only a handful. I just follow the comic book threads here, 'cause they’re fun.
Sez who? I agree, she wouldn’t but she could. Hell, if she can mentally pick a lock…
And I disagree: did you see Jean slap the White Queen around last issue? I’d say that Jean was on par with Saturn Girl and Saturn Girl once pulled precisely the stunt (not the heart bit of course) that I describe against the Legion, who had also been trained to resist one presumes.
Spoofe, per a recent storyline (circa Avengers #22) in Avengers, there are two types of Adamantium. The type that Thor can’t even start to dent and the wimpy kind. Any time you see something called “adamantium” broken, bent, dented, snapped off, it’s not true adamantium. I really liked that story as it fixed some major problems like…does anyone really believe that Cyclop’s eyebeams carry more force that Thor’s hammer hit as hard as Thor can?
Fenris
In other words, Jean’s the only one that gets a limitation on her powers, while everyone else goes full-bore? Nope, doesn’t work that way.
I would say most definitely. Jean’s very nature is one of subtlety.
Secondary Adamantium’s not recent, Fenris. Again, been around since at least 86.
I don’t know about Jean. I’m not limiting her, but Marvel psionics seems to be mostly psion versus psion. Sure, she could SEP, or control one or two people… but you need the raw power of the Shadow King controlling Karma’s body to be able to do mass mind control.
Sigh
Look what you’re all doing. Everyone’s ignoring Jubilee. The rest of the X-Men would undoubtably do the same while they concentrated on the most powerful mutants. But Jubilee has a deadly secret: there’s not much you can do when there are fireworks going off in your face.
Sneaking around unnoticed, Jubilee approaches one of her former teamates and then… BAM! FIREWORKS IN THE FACE!
While the other X-Men pounce on their temporarily disabled foe, Jubilee sneaks over to someone else and… BAM! FIREWORKS IN THE FACE!
I guarentee even the most powerful psycic is going to have trouble concentrating with fireworks going off in their face. Jubilee wins and delivers a spectacular light show.
Until Ripped Shirt Kirk jumps in to finish her off.
Heck, even Robin the Boy Wonder could take out Jubilee. I seriously doubt Wolverine is going to have any trouble.
Yes, but do you think Wolverine could really do it? Jubilee was like his sidekick. I think in that moment before he struck, we would see the caring, sentimental man behind the gruff Canadian veneer.
Plus there would be other mutants and fireworks in his face.