Who should be punished in this workplace violence situation?

HR exists mainly to cover the corporation’s ass. (I have known some very nice HR people, but let’s be real). Geoff isn’t a risk-averse HR person. He doesn’t need to have a knee-jerk “fire everyone involved” response.

Maybe not. For Frank’s sake, I hope you’re right. :slight_smile:

If you’re only worried about the threat of lawsuits, then firing Frank is a terrible idea. Tony might or might not sue, depending on how big of an idiot he is, but nothing you do to Frank is going to change the odds of him being that big of an idiot, and even if he does sue, his case is terrible no matter what you do. The only court action that Tony could press that would have even the slightest chance of success would be against Frank personally.

Fire Frank, though, and you’re almost guaranteed to see a wrongful termination suit from him, and his case is a heck of a lot stronger than Tony’s.

Also, this is not a matter of a man “defending his daughter’s honor”. If Tony had said something like “I hear she’s already slept with half the freshman class”, that would be an attack on her honor. It’s still reprehensible, but it’d fall short of what he actually said. What he actually said was a threat of violence: He said that he wanted to rape her. Frank’s not just defending her reputation; he’s defending her.

If Tony’s statement is actually (legally) a threat of violence, then I definitely retract most of what I’ve said. :slight_smile:

I’ve only read some of the responses, but…

Frank is a basically decent guy and a good salesman, and I’m sympathetic to his situation. That said, violence in the workplace is never acceptable. If neither Mike nor Steve were willing to deal with the constant harassment he was experiencing, he should have gone up the chain to Geoff. If Geoff wouldn’t help, he should have gotten a lawyer. He gets a formal, written warning, including a provision that if he does anything like this ever again, he’ll be fired on the spot. Maybe a suspension until after Christmas. The suggestion that he go spend some time with his family has a lot of merit.

Tony is a miserable excuse for a human being, and is hurting the business (in a blatantly illegal manner, no less). Fire him and tell him that if he sets foot on the property again you’ll have him arrested.

Mike has shown he’s unsuited for the responsibilities of management, in a way that opens the business up to legal action. He might not be beyond salvaging, though. If Geoff thinks he’s able to learn the ‘new’ (or, as we call it, ‘sane, legal and objectively correct’) way of doing things, a formal reprimand and a bunch of training courses are in order. Otherwise, demote him if there’s a non-supervisory role he’s suited for, and fire him if not.

Steve seems to have already learned his lesson, which is to find time for his subordinates when they have problems. I don’t think any further disciplinary action is needed. It sounds like he’s still overworked, though. Look into getting him an assistant or some time-management courses or something.

Additionally, Geoff should make a point of letting every employee know that if their direct supervisors aren’t helping the with a problem, he wants them to come to him (rather than, for instance, punching people).

Tony could press charges and Frank would be in trouble. But a civil lawsuit would be very different for those involved. Tony suing Frank or the company would have a difficult time. He could easily be counter-sued and how do you think that would turn out for him?

Tony is hurting the company. If he hurts Fank’s sales he hurts the company. Those customers are most likely going to different dealership, not to Tony. Tony is the biggest problem. Then the manager. Frank is the smallest problem (IMHO) He is least likely to repeat his mistake.

It’s easy to say what you would or could have done with the luxury of reflection, but sometimes the wrong stimulus has you reacting before any possibility of reflection.

Maybe Frank thought he could grit his teeth and hold up under whatever shit Tony tossed at him about his wife, at least until he won that big award. He was braced for that. But it wouldn’t have been surprising for him to be blindsided by that sleazeball’s talking about fucking his daughter, and for him to be swinging before there was time to think of whether he should quit. or whether there were such things as fighting words, or what company policy was, or whether it might be better to ask Tony to step outside.

Anyone remember Michael Dukakis in the debate where the moderator asked him whether, as an opponent of the death penalty, he would feel the same if his own wife were raped and murdered? His bloodless, dispassionate response is one of the moments credited with costing him the election.

I really don’t think he’ll get far with “I was protecting my daughter from danger.” She was never in danger, and nothing he did protected her. He’s better off sticking with “People saying mean things sends me into an uncontrollable rage.”

I have never seen it suggested, however, that the ideal response would have been to storm down from the podium and bludgeon Bernard Shaw bloody with his own microphone.

We have different Labour laws over here, but I’d be wanting some more detail about their history before deciding what to do with Frank and Tony. How long had they each been there, what was their past performance like as sales people, had there been any past issues with behaviour for either?

With Mike, similar, what’s his history, how long has he been there, how did he get to be manager, what training has he been given, has his performance as manager been good, bad, etc?

I really want to know some detail before I make a binding decision.

My initial instinct, without that extra detail is:

Sack Frank, Can’t condone punching someone in the workplace regardless of provocation even if i personally sympathise with him.

Tony gets a first and final warning and told to take some classes or undertake some training in what the expected legal behavioural framework is.

Mike gets his arse removed. I’m tossing up between sacking him and a first and final warning.

Well, Bernard Shaw wasn’t saying that he, personally, would like to rape and murder Kitty Dukakis, either.