on TV and heard that they estimate 20 to 30 THOUSAND dead in and under the WTC.
As well as a Delta-Force insertion to lay some Old Testament-style reckoning on Bin-Laden’s soldiers, I think we need (and are justified) to bring the Taliban out of power and replace them with a puppet regime with the aim of free and democratic elections 5-10 years later.
And for violating the safety of myself and my family, I would gladly put a bullet into anyone. (It was a long time ago, but I shot expert my last 2 years in the Army)
Let me point out the obvious. What we are talking about here is not, I repeat not, an Arnold Schwartseneger/ Sylvester Stallion movie. A military response to the attacks at NYC and DC will inevitably be expensive and poses the real possibility of a substantial loss of life by American soldiers, sailors, Marines and airmen. Us old, fat, decrepit codgers are not wanted. War is (with full recognition of the crucial role played by women in our national life) a young man’s game. We don’t really know who we are at war with; if indeed someone is at war with us.
I doubt that this nation has the will to put substantial forces on the ground in Afghanistan (which looks like the likely candidate according to the information being spoon fed to the press) or that a campaign of bombing is likely to accomplish any worth while objective. If there is a lesion to our involvement in Vietnam and in the Persian Gulf it is that we better have a concrete objective and we better commit the force that necessary to accomplish it. Don’t waste my time blathering on about Delta Forces and taking submarines into Kabul.
If we are not prepared to do the job right we should not undertake the mission. Remember President Regan’s pronouncements about revenging the dead Marines in Lebanon? If we do not act decisively and with overwhelming force to this challenge and insult we will expose ourselves once more as windbags, all hat and no cattle. First, however we need to know just who it is we are fixing to pound the snot out of. Second, we need to convince our friends and our opponent’s enemies that we have the right culprit, not just the first on the list of the usual suspects. Third we need to go in with a force sufficient to cow any opposition and get the job done. Fourth, once the job is done we need to get out.
I could not take a life. I would rather die myself than be forced to. A world like that is just to wrong to continue existing in. I hope it never comes to that- and I do have many non-lethal defenses against such situations. You don’t have to kill to be strong.
Beyond my repulsion to killing, I am especially opposed to organized killing. The simple fact is that there are things that we will never know about this. There are people making decisions that we have no idea about. Don’t get me wrong, I love America, but we have made so many wrong decisions in the past that it is hard for me to trust so much that I would violate my most sacred (and ideed, only) moral.
Now, while I think that no one should ever kill, in some situations I will keep my mouth shut. If things go to the worst and we start shipping out troops, you won’t see me protesting. Standing in my window grimly contemplating the world, perhaps, but not protesting.
If I were called to fight, I would, but I would be terrified beyond all reason. I really would. I Thank God (literally) that I am not currently eligble for the draft. I hope it won’t matter in the end, though…hopefully these people will be brought to justice, without any more American lives lost in the process.
My most sincere respects to those willing to fight for this country. You are braver than I.
Fuck you and everyone who “thinks” like you. How dare you suggest that someone who because of deeply held moral, religious or ethical objections will not bear arms has no right to live in this nation? How dare you suggest that the measure of one’s love of country is one’s willingness to kill for it? I have no doubt that those who blew up our people were as sincere as you in their love of country. Care to applaud their patriotism? This is my country every bit as much as it is yours, and your willingness to kill other human beings doesn’t make you a better American than I am.
Overweight, myopic, and over the age limit, but if it needs to be done …
The COs do have my respect, as long as they don’t cave. I don’t expect they will.
1- I hate war. I have nothing against violent revenge on a small scale, but I hate the thought of millions of people dying (again). In a war, we won’t just kill terrorists, we’ll kill innocents as well.
2- I’m Canadian.
3- I’m in South Korea for another few months.
Given those three little tidbits, I doubt I’ll be enlisting in the military anytime soon.
HOWEVER, there is no choke, joint-lock, or submission hold that is unknown to me. I also throw a mean punch. So, if nothing else, once they find the sick fuckers who are behind this, feed them to me one by one, and I’ll kill them with my bare hands. You can sign me up for that job right now.
Since that’s unfortunately not likely to happen, then I’ll just send all my support now, and help in any other way I can once I get back home.
I said, not that I am against people fighting-if I were FORCED to, I would, I suppose. BUT…I know myself, and I know I would NOT make a good soldier…I KNOW I would screw up, and I KNOW I would not be an asset.
Yeah, so I’m a selfish bitch. Fine. I’m a selfish bitch. Whatever. Go screw.
I am. You act like you aren’t patriotic towards your country(whatever that may be) simply because you won’t act violently to defend it. Frankly I feel sorry for you.
I would have supported a coming together of both parties and condemned any sort of violent act as I do know. No matter who it comes from. I would have volunteered to go and talk with the British myself but I wouldn’t have raised a fist.
Actually, this is worse than anything Britain ever did. Britain was taxing us. This is worse.
I don’t know WHAT I would have done. None of us can. I’m being honest, I would choke at the first sign of combat. I’m not FIT to be in that situation. I’d rather have someone who CAN, rather than go there just to prove something.
Well, with all due respect mayberrydan, it appears you do not have a firm grasp of human nature. Have you ever studied human history? I mean, really studied it? Again, just curious…
I mean no offence whatsoever but I must also distance myself from Guinastasia’s position. I can’t even support someone else’s fighting in my position.
I have been viewing this not so much like a war but like any mass murder. Say we have conclusive proof that a serial killer is in San Francisco. Do we bomb it? Do we send in an army shooting anyone who may slow us down? We would stand a good chance of killing the criminal after all…
I can totally understand people wanting retribution. Afghanistan themnselves have said they will hand over whoever is responsible (meaning Bin Laden)if conclusive proof is provided. Shouldn’t that be enough?
I can either rely on others to make sacrifices for me or make them myself. One invites some risk, the other invites a lifetime of guilt and regret.
I meet all of the enlistment requirements. I am young, fit, and vigorous. I have skills that will be useful: I am a trained linguist and open source document analyst with a college degree. Sure, I’ve never touched modern military documents in Arabic, but I know I can learn quickly and learn well.
For now I am waiting and watching. It is easy and quite ego-indulgent to feel that one’s country needs one’s services in a specific, special way. Combine my natural egotism with my experiences in the ruins of my city. Immediate enlistment seems like a necessary, attractive choice. But I am going to wait, as this purposes to be a serious decision. Wait for my anger to subside, wait to see if a few cruise missiles can’t settle this problem for good.
But the intel experts are saying that the US needs to adopt an “Israeli Model” of long-term covert warfare. Since the CIA is not the Mossad by any means, substantial training and revision will be required. More people with skills will be needed for campaigns of some length.
In a few months I will ask myself if I am still needed.
I’m not sure what you mean by studied but I definately understand human nature. I know that the tendency is to fix the problem as quickly as possible and I also know that that never ever works. It simply causes bigger ones years down the road.
There is a need to see whoever is responsible be brought to justice at whatever cost. In this situation that simply can’t happen right away without the loss of thousands more civilian lives. Then you have that country wanting the United States to pay for killing their civilians. MOre acts like September 11 would occur.
I happen to know that human nature will almost inevitably fuck things up immensly by trying the quickest possible fix. I guess I might not be human…
Quite so. Interviewed parties are saying that the Cold War model for the CIA is no longer appropriate, and that given the impossibility of prosecuting a real land war against an international network of terrorists, one possibility, provided that the United States has the political will, is to defend its interests covertly.
While I doubt there are too many loudmouths interviewed in organizations like the CIA and the FBI, I would take these remarks seriously. As well as their remarks about Operation Carnivore, and other violations of internet privacy. Like I said, it is wise to wait until the initial horror has passed before jumping to any conclusions.
I am no warrior. I have a strong soul, but nowhere in it is a bone of violence without meaning. Guns make my skin crawl. I have little respect for authority. I am no warrior.
I am, however, just this side of briiliant and getting to be a fully trained Chemical engineer. (focusing on ethics. sigh) The Revolution? i would not be fighting on the side of the colonials. I’d be spying on the British. (Did I mention I was sneaky?) my mind is the one asset I can give, and that I am willing to give freely. But I will not ever point a gun at another human being. (I try not to think about which is acually more dangerous.)
Oh horseshit, dan. The Afghan government knows exactly who they have in their midst, and could care less. It is so much more important for them to not cooperate with the US. They would harbor and succor Satan himself if it meant that the US didn’t get it’s way.
Afghanistan knows that bin Laden is a terrorist with a vast network responsible for dozens of deaths around the world. They have refused numerous requests for his extradition.
John McCain was on NBC this morning, discussing Afghanistan’s statement that retaliation by the US against it’s innocent people would result in more violence like we witnessed in NY. McCain almost smiled when he said that he told them- hey, if you turn over the terrorists in your midst right now, no harm will come to your citizens, it’s your choice.