Who will fight?

The BBQ Pit
101

I beg to differ. First, you would need to learn how to navigate and fly a jumbo jet. This is a nontrivial task. I guarantee you won’t force a pilot, even with a razor blade to his throat, to fly into a building. The majority of commercial pilots are ex-military as that is one of the most common ways to get pilot training. I know of no other way for anyone to get training except through the airlines or military. Any group which can acquire detailed manuals on these aircraft(and you would need detailed info, jumbo jets are substantially different from fighters or turboprops) and train their people to fly them without having access to one is very well funded/connected. I doubt you and your friends have these capabilities.

There must have been extensive research done on the flight patterns of those flights in order to determine a timeline for the hijack and changing the course of the planes which would cause the impacts in such close windows. Any further apart and more people would have had time to evacuate between the first and second strike or the military would have had time to scramble air defense. Airal navagation skills of the type required to analyze the flight patterns and determine new courses/speed and adjustments to execute this plan are not “child’s play.” Please don’t trivilize this attack. It was extremely well planned and executed, it takes training and co-ordination to do that. Opinions of pilots and other aeronautical engineers show the maneuvers made by the second jet(the only one we have really good footage of) to be something that would be difficult for novice pilots.

Not everyone can re-plot a course that will take them through a major metropolitan area’s airspace(where a good many buildings are tall enough to hit when you’re coming in at the 50-60 story altitude) with enough precision and on the spur of the moment(they could not be exactly sure of the position of the plane when they took over, the planned course HAD TO be at least adjusted when the moment came) to hit their target’s so precisely. All the terrorist experts are saying this was a large operation(estimated as many as 30 actual terrorists aboard planes) and it was very well funded and planned.

Steven

102

What a tough question. I don’t think I could ever kill another person, but I truly believe whoever was responsable for this attack needs to die.

So put me in the Chubby, Near Sighted, But Willing To Load The Guns For The Real Soldiers Brigade.

103

Fat, female, and 30, but if my country calls on me to do my part to support those who will fight for our freedoms and for civilized people throughout the world, I’ll do whatever I can and thank God every night for brave, patriotic men willing to do what it takes for freedom to be preserved.

I used to be a pacifist and believed in conscientious objection. I haven’t been that way for years, and the events of 9/11/01 only reinforced that. Never again.

104

…because today they told me that I’m too old. Even though I can fly anything with rotors on it, the bastards! Sure 'm older! I’m also smarter and a better pilot then the wet children that they give helicopters to these days. I can do things with a set of rotors that Mother Rucker’s children wouldn’t dream of!

I hope and believe that this will be handled before it ever gets desperate enough to give me the cyclic on a kerosene-burner, but yes, I would fight. I will envy those that do.

We’ve got to dig in for a long war. Killing terrorists is may be difficult, but killing terrorism will be harder. Yet we’ve known for a while that it had to be done. Now we’re willing to do it.

But give me an age waiver and a set of orders, and get out of the way!

105

EJsGirl

I don’t mean to paint them out as heros. What I heard is that if conclusive proof was provided that it was Mr Bin Laden then they would be forced to hand him over. Afghanistan is in a pretty shitty place right now and it seems genuine that they don’t want it to get worse.

106

Any chance you could get a job teaching wet behind the ears kids how to handle a chopper?

107

It’s been a dream of mine to become a helicopter flight instructor. The pay is low, and you don’t get paid at all when you’re not flying (weather, mechanical problems, lack of students, closures like the current one of the National Airspace). The hours are long, from dawn 'til dusk. It’s expensive. But I still remember the instructor who taught me how to fly my dad’s Cessna. I remember the instructors who taught me how to fly helicopters. That would be satisfying to me.

Anyone want to chip in and help me finish my Commercial and Flight Instructor certificates? Can I get a small business loan to do that, and to buy a used Schweizer?

I want to teach! And maybe inspire a few who will defend our nation in “machines so ugly the Earth repels them”.

108

I live in Canada, so this isn’t an immediate concern for me. Then again, If the U.S. goes to war, I bet Canada will, too.

I wouldn’t join. I’ve made my boyfriend promise me not to join. I shudder at the thought of anyone I love going to war.

I didn’t lose anyone in NY, and I don’t want to lose anyone in the war. To me, people are so much more important than politics. If I actually felt that more hijackings could easily happen, and that the only way to prevent it would be war then maybe I would feel differently.

Maybe.

109

I volunteer.

110

Bipolar, nearsighted, flat feet, can’t shoot for the life of me. That first one already has me out. But I can donate blood. And I have, twice, with no reason to stop. Money I don’t have in plenty, but blood I have to give for my country… In a much more peaceful manner. (I’m not big on death, I’m a CO)

~C~

111

Health 17 yr old checking in.

If it came to war I would enlist in the USMC or the Navy. There would of course be fears of death. But that fear was pushed from the foreground of my mind after the events of September 11th.

112

I understand the distinction you make, but in the real event it might be more difficult to distance oneself from the killing. I was in the navy as a chaplain and I hadn’t been in very long before it occured to me that as one of the many cogs in the larger machine that was my ship I would share the responsibility for its effectiveness as a weapon. Relatively few members of the military point and fire weapons at the enemy but it seems to me that it’s not possible to draw a clear distinction that limits participation in violence to those on the front lines. It may be that the persons nursed back to health will return to the battle and cause more injury to the enemy.

It’s not that I wish to dismiss the distinction you make. I reference it only because it reflected the approach I once took but that I could not maintain.

113

Guinistasia:>> << CIA waged war? ARe you shitting me? Good god, I would NOT support this country if this were to happen!

Covert operations? No more! No MORE!!!>>>
Guin, you seriously need to get out more. Failing that, you need to do a lot more reading on the history and theory of low intensity warfare. I’d start with Mao’s writings and with the army FM on the subject.

Failing that, I’d get out of college. I know you’ve been studying the role of the CIA and what covert operations are. Problem is, they really aren’t teaching you much. It seems your instruction lacks balance and perspective.

Just how do you think it is that human intelligence–the kind that prevented many of Bin Laden’s attacks in the past, and the kind that would have prevented tuesdays attacks–is gathered?

(hint: covertly.)

Ok, so you aren’t cut out to kill people, personally.

Tell, you what, though, if you are smart and hard working and have integrity, Uncle Sam could find work for you to do.

Can you turn a wrench? Can you drive a truck? Can you take an inventory? Can you load a container? Can you program a computer? Can you operate a radio? Can you crack a code? Can you learn a language? Can you fix pipes? Can you run wires? Can you apply a bandage? Can you type?

Are you too good for military service? Are you too smart?

I mean, I don’t understand your kneejerk aversion to military service, here.

Isn’t there ANYTHING you can do?

114

I’ve got till early December to decide whether I go back into the AF or not.

I’ve already started dieting, to take off that last ten pounds.

Personally, I don’t care whether you would fight alongside me, or protest against me. I’d be doing what I thought was right, and I can ignore you.

115

I’ll answer the questions posed to Guinistasia.

I could not do anything that would aid bloodshed. I cannot activily support war, because support is not really all that different than the actual deed (as evidenced in our vow to seek retribution on those that harbor terrorists). I might consider helping in a medic position that helps the wounded of both sides- but even that would be iffy, considering that medics are essential to the continuation of war.

The most I can promise about any potential war is that I would probably not actively work against it.

116

I would, and knowing it meant killing.

I’ll add standard disclaimers (all true) about being female, overage and blind as a bat without glasses. (Still a fair rifle shot w/ glasses, though.) The chances are vanishingly small I’d ever be accepted into military service.

I’ve enjoyed every protection and blessing so I feel obligated to do what’s needed to preserve them. It’s a matter of equal responsibility. Fair’s fair. I can’t the goodies while others shoulder the nasty, traumatic parts.

There’d be a huge personal cost, but yes, I’d kill. In what we’re facing now, it’d be without anger. (Unless anger is icy.) It’s like a switch flipped; no fury, no beserker rage, just an acceptance of being pushed into a hideous but necessary task.

I’m making no moral judgements on anyone else, btw.

Veb

117

I love my country. I will do whatever I can in support of it. Under most circumstances, I’d be delighted to see such a staunch show of patriotism as we’ve seen the past few days, and in most ways, I am. I am also, however, deeply troubled, and not a little worried about what people have said and written in regards to a military response.

Yes, people are all for war now. We’re all for going out and blasting the heck out of these [string of expletives inserted here] terrorists. But I have to wonder what will happen when the first pictures of casualties come in and when the bodies of our soldiers begin coming home. I wonder how high public support will continue to be when we get the inevitable pictures of civilians on the other side who are killed as a result of whatever conflict may come. And rest assured the terrorists will make sure that we see each and every child who is killed, each and every family who is affected by whatever war follows. If they don’t, our own media will. And I wonder how the American public will react.

It isn’t that I’m a cynic, per se. It’s that my father is a retired lieutenant commander. He is also a decorated veteran of Vietnam. Three tours. He was a Seal. He volunteered to go into the Navy to fight an extremely unpopular war because he was raised to believe that when one’s country called, one served. He did not agree with the war, but he also believed such service was the price of being a citizen.

But Vietnam wasn’t like any of the wars his forebears had fought. It broke all of the so-called rules. It wasn’t just fighting men facing fighting men. The VC used women and even children to plant grenades, sabotage places where the soldiers stayed, set traps in which our soldiers were killed. In short, it was in many respects the type of warfare we now face – except what will face us will likely be even more outrageous to our Western point of view.

I worry now because I remember how people treated my father when he came back. I remember being out with my father when he was dressed in uniform, and having an old lady stop us, spit on him, ask him how many babies had he killed that day and ask me if I knew my daddy was a baby-killer. I remember when we were asked in first grade to talk about someone we admired, and I spoke of my father and how proud I was of his bravery…only to be pulled to the back room by the teacher, who told me I really shouldn’t talk about such things and I should find a real hero.

All this is in my mind because I realize that if we fight –when we fight – that it’s going to be ugly. Uglier than most of us could even conceive.

We are going to have to not only accept but support what those who fight for us are going to be asked to do. We are going to have to do this no matter what our personal views are on war or on violence. If we cannot or do not go ourselves, we must at the very least have the decency not to condemn the actions of those who do the dirty deeds for us. And this we must be prepared to do as a nation, no matter how aesthetically displeasing what must be done is to each of us personally.

I ask myself if we will do that, as a country. I know I will. I already have. I just want to know that history will not repeat itself in terms of how we stand behind those who will go to fight for us. And that question, I can’t answer.

118

Please allow me to ask my “stock question”:

It is 1776. You’re a blacksmith, and you live in Boston. A significant number of your brethren are taking up arms to fight the British.

What will you do? Will you also take up arms? I’m dying to know…

And please, none of this “this isn’t 1776, blaa blaa blaa.” Just (please) answer the question.

119

Perfectly said. That is the kind of conviction I hope I can bring to bear if I am called on to serve.

120

For my own country, no. There’s a policy, y’see…But I’m still waiting to hear back from the IDF.

AND I have a current CFI ticket, AND I’ve graduated 17 private helicopter pilots in a single year, AND I’m a really good instructor.

BTW, anybody on this board knows someone with enough brass on his hat to get me a waiver, I want to hear from you.