I stand corrected {actually I’m sitting} Thanks for educating me. ;j
I was trying to find a another source this morning that teaches the concept of Satan I described above. I think it might be from LDS but I’m not sure. Regardless, it’s mythology.
Nope, Satan has free will the same as you or I. If you see the owner as God and he lets Satan lose on the world then you’d have to consider free will.
Pit Bull " Hey how about if I bite you?"
Me; " Piss off asshole"
Pit Bull “shucks”
Say what? Please, reread David Simmons’s post, #96.
Revelation 12:4-17 describes a war in heaven against a “dragon” identified as Satan. It doesn’t say anything aout pride. The Christian legends of Lucifer refusing to bow to humans and so being cast out are not explicitly Biblical but are built from verses like the ones that Cosmosdan quoted and popularized in works like Paradise Lost.
Do you really believe this?
Since God knew the answer ahead of time why does any thing (or being) need a test? A human father can’t be sure, but an omnipotent Being should know. If The maker knows his object will fail it would be a waste of time making it. surely the fault is with the maker not the object.
Monavis
There is a big difference between a book of fiction and a real being. The person being punished in reality is truly suffering, the fictional character is not.
Monavis
So God created evil just so his book wouldn’t be boring?
Admittedly, the analogy leaves a lot to be desired. I was (only half-seriously) proposing another inadequate metophor for God to go along with the inadequate metaphors that had already been mentioned.
However, some serious theories about why God allows evil and/or suffering do involve elements that aren’t totally unrelated to reasons an author would put evil or suffering in his books, such as (at the risk of way oversimplifying) to make Good shine all the brighter by contrast, or to give Good something to struggle against.
I believe this sort of rationalization echoes Augustine. And I have to say that I’ve never thought this a particularly effective explanation for evil. If in fact things are good, if life is a bowl of cherries for all of God’s creation, then what difference does it make if we don’t realize just how good it is?
Already read it and responded. You’ll have to be more specific about whatever point you’re making.
I’m not. You’ll note I didn’t say it was the bible.
I was responding to your comment that God knew Satan would tempt us to do evil and if he loved us he should have prevented it.
I don’t agree. Satan {according to mythology} only has power to tempt and we choose what to do about that temptation.
If my kid allows himself to be swayed by other kids to participate in shoplifting do I blame the other kids and say, “He’not really a shoplifter it’s their fault,” or do I make him face up to his choice?"
I’m not talking about us doing nothing about evil in the world.
I see. When you wrote “evil” you didn’t mean evil in general, just a particular evil.
That is an excellent point. I wish more people thought of it. However, chooseing your own path is not failure is it?
It can only be seen as such if we think of it in terms of reward and punishment.
I guess that means it isn’t that.
Right, to rephrase, I meant
There is no reason for God to restrain the power of Satan because Satan only has power over us if we choose his ways of our own free will.
I would think this to be a reasonable analogy if the other kids were the Supreme, Omniscient, Omnipotent Creators of The Universe and All That Is In It. But they aren’t, so I don’t.
Um…well no, In this case I’m the father and the other kids are doing the tempting would be Satan. The point is about free will. I never forbade my son to hang out with anyone even when I thought it could only lead to trouble. I wanted him to learn something so I warned him that he’d have to face the consequences of his choices and then let him choose for himself.
People often ask if God really loves us then why does he allow all these terrible things to happen , when they should be asking, why do we allow it.
Of course there are terrible things that are not about choice such as natural disasters. Those are harder to figure.
Yes, but if we’re truly eternal spirit and not these physical bodies then how bad is the suffering in perspective.
Depends on your perspective. If as I believe we only have this brief life and then we die, then a lifetime of suffering is truly bad (unfortunate, perhaps).
If however, we take your perspective of an eternal soul then the short suffering and then assension to heaven might not seem significant, although, one might have to ask what creator would make a creation just for it to suffer, die and then get to spend the rest of eternity basking in his reflected glory?
And what of the souls who go to hell? A moral on believer might suffer all of his or her life and then be condemned to hell. As stated earlier, surely an omnipotent deity would know what you are going to do and therefore you are always damned, which negates the possibility of having a free choice to begin with.
As an aside, this does not bode well for Britains clergy.
This leads me to several possible conclusions (assuming the existence of a deity):
- God is not all powerful and all knowing, therefore explaining his need to test his creations.
or
- God is omniscient and omnipresent, but is not merciful. “have no other god but me, for I am a jealous god”.
or
- Maybe door number 2 choice is correct, unbelievers do not automatically go to hell.