Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
(luckily I’m right, too)
FinnAgain, I get what you’re saying.
A friendship blossoming into something more, despite the presence of one party’s SO is one thing. Random men feeling that “I’m already seeing someone” isn’t a polite brush-off, but an invitation to try harder is not really the way to go.
Personally, before I had an engagement ring (which works most of the time, but not always), I stopped saying “I have a boyfriend”, and started saying “I prefer women” or “Sorry, you’re not my type” or, if I was in a particularly foul mood, “Not if you were the last man on earth”.
I didn’t particularly like doing that, because most of the guys had absolutely nothing wrong with them, and I wasn’t setting out to make them feel stupid for approaching me (how were they to know I wasn’t interested), I just got wholly sick of the obnoxious people I mentioned earlier, and decided to be pro-active in preventing that kind of crap from happening.
Lest you think I’m some sort of supermodel lookalike and that’s the reason I get chatted up a lot, I’m not. I’m 5’ tall, and weigh less than 100lbs… it makes me an easy target for assholes, and a certain type of man who likes there to be no doubt about who’s the boss in a relationship. Hence I tend to get more than my fair share of shit from people who don’t know how to act like human beings, which has coloured my view somewhat.
So hopefully you can see where I’m coming from.
Of course, in that situation it’d be rude. But, I think the point is that in that situation it’s rude, and not all situations are that situation.
“I’m already seeing someone” could easily end up, instead, being a flirtatious “Well… I’ve kinda been seeing someone and we’re not exactly serious but…”
Not every time a woman says she’s taken does she mean that she wants you to stop flirting with her, maybe even if you just met her in a bar.
Not to detract from the specific instance you mention, either.
To be fair, I was/am rather ignorant about dating from a woman’s perspective. Being that I’ve only rejected women a handfull of times, I’ve never really thought about what it’d be like to make it a habit…
In the instance of honest communication “I’m not interested, at all.” would probably be best… but people seem to get all squirmy when it comes to talking truth, and they like to sugar coat it. Or dissemble. Or use euphemisms. Sometimes “I’m not interested.” becomes “I’m sorry, I’m really busy with work and I don’t think I have any free time.”
But that tangent is probably too far afield anyways.
I guess I just never considered that, and I was honestly rather shocked to read what you wrote… I mean, if anybody laid their hands on me, they’d have a very short time to remove them before getting hit. I guess, for me, politeness includes respecting someone’s comfort zone and personal space, and I just assumed that virtually all guys who aren’t assholes know to do that. Maybe there are just more assholes out there than I thought.
That does suck.
But to be fair, some of us find petite gals to be very sexy, and it’s nothing about domination or power.
But yeah… I guess they figure that you’re too small to slug 'em if they grab you or something… (which is why you should learn aikido ~evil grins~)
Yes, I grok.
Not in fullness, but waiting is.
I do understand that you’d want such behavior to stop, and I think any reaonsable person would. And you’re also probably right, if there was a societal interdiction like you described, (almost) nobody would have creeps hitting on them in the manner you described.
But…
I do think we can agree that, in the service of truth, the only generalizations which are made should be true ones. And if a generaliztion is false to facts, it is worse than useless. Yes?
Aren’t a lot of cheesy romance movies based on the story of boy meets girl, girl’s boyfriend is jerk, boy proves to girl what a great guy he is, girl leaves boyfriend for boy, weepy/happy music and audience cries?
The Wedding Singer comes to mind, but I’m sure if I thought about it for 30 more seconds I could come up with another.
Yep. Totally 
It’s just that it would be nice if we could stop the idiots from engaging in this kind of crap:
“Can I buy you a drink”
“I don’t think so, I have a boyfriend”
“So, you’re still available”
“No, I’m not interrested”
“Aww, come on, you know you are, really.”
Maybe a generalising rule isn’t the way to do it…
Karate chops to the testicles?
Re-education camps?
Aversion therapy?
A big book called “How Not to Behave Like an Asshole Towards Women in 10 Easy Steps”?
Another option would be for the people who don’t actually want to be in monogamous relationships (not counting the mutually agreed on open relationships) with their SOs to dump them already and stop making life so complicated for everyone! 
Seriously, nobody has problems with nice guys who can take a hint (either way). It’s the wankers who can’t I have issues with.
Well, I’ll chime in as someone that completely supports the OP in his frustration. I’ll preface all of this with admitting that I am very possessive of my wife, though I think it is offset by her possessive feelings toward me. That said, I know that she’d never stray, and neither would i.
I think that people that think it’s okay to pursue involved people after that fact has been made plain are pretty sad. I think that any excuses you make for them (people won’t stray if they are happy and satisfied) do not take into account the complexities of relationships.
Even in a good, healthy relationship, you’ll have fights, low points, depression, distance (physical), etc. And I think that there’s something predatory about hanging around looking for relationships in trouble just so you can get your dick wet (or the female corollary).
If someone has told you they have a girl/boyfriend, that’s your cue to back off. I extend that to all other guys, and expect the same consideration in return. I had thought that this was pretty standard in polite society…unfortunately, I was wrong. And while i don’t feel a personal stake in it, it still rubs me the wrong way.
I always took “I have a girlfriend” to mean “I’m not interested, buzz off” and my actions after that point would be to treat the person as a friend and find someone else. If the person breaks up with the girlfriend and then after an appropriate time, approaches me, then it’s a different story. I guess I just live in a different world, though. Sitting around pursuing people with SOs just seems either tacksville or pathetic. And I definitely use “I have a boyfriend” to signal “I’m not interested.”
There’s a world of difference between meeting a girl at a bar and not knowing she’s in a relationship to “Hey, it’s Bob’s girlfriend Jill and she’s drunk. I’ll go hit on her.” I’d never hit on someone one of my friends was seeing, I like my friends too much to do that.
I think we agreed way back at the beginning of this thread that you simply don’t hit on people you’re friends are dating. Ever.
Any guy is free to “hit” on my GF, of course I’m free to hit on them. This one is for the drunk assholes who roll up in front of you with zero respect.
Yeah, but you don’t need to waste time hitting those fucks. Just casually extend you foot a few inches too far and watch them go down in a pile of tangled limbs and alcohol soaked cloathing.
Ah yes, the enraging Biff technique.
One has to be careful with culturally-specific words.
Where I come from, “dating” is going out and spending time with people in a romantic context in order to figure out whether or not one wants to spend time with that person in a romantic context. Once one’s decided that one is done with this testing period and wants to spend that time with said person, it stops being “dating” and moves into “having a relationship” of various sorts.
My absolute favorite quote on dating, ever, comes from Miss Manners:
“There are three possible parts to a date, of which at least two must be offered: entertainment, food, and affection. It is customary to begin a series of dates with a great deal of entertainment, a moderate amount of food, and the merest suggestion of affection. As the amount of affection increases, the entertainment can be reduced proportionately. When the affection IS the entertainment, we no longer call it dating. Under no circumstances can the food be omitted.”
–* Miss Manners’ Guide to Excruciatingly Correct Behaviour*, a book which everyone should own
How do you know it’s nefarious? I certainly knew anumber of people who would have been better off i they had successfully be hit on by someone else than their “SO”.
Because you generally don’t want to hurt your own friends. So, you would generally abstain from hitting on their SO, even if you find him/her attractive.
And as for hurting a perfect stranger, you might think it’s a bad thing, but what if it makes the person you’re hitting on and you both happier?
There might be a lot of reasons to end a relationship, and “I met someone who makes me happier than you do” is as good as any other (and better than some). Isn’t being happy the main goal of romantic relationships?
Of course, I think you have some moral duty regarding someone you have been involved with, but this duty doesn’t extend to this “someone” who never commited to anything regarding your current SO, nor promised anything to him/her.
You’re listing obnoxious behaviors. I’m not sure what difference it would have made had you been single and saying “no”. Would these behaviors had been any less obnoxious?
I mean, you could have said intead, for instance : I’d rather have a blanket “don’t hit on eople in bars/workplace/whatever” rule than have to deal with drunkards/coworkers/whatever who can’t tell the difference between eductive and obnoxious. It would be exaclty the same thing, and it wouldn’t prove people shouldn’t hit on other people in bars or worplaces.
I guess the question that I keep coming back to is: What’s the harm?
If someone makes a pass at my wife, and does it in a non-sleazy manner, and takes no for an answer, who was hurt? It’s not an insult to me. In fact, it has nothing to do with me. It’s certainly not an insult to her, and she probably walks away with a smidge of an ego boost.
If it’s done in front of me there is an implied “I’m better than this dude” aspect. But, if I’m not there, I have nothing to do with it.
If the guy making the pass is a friend of mine it means he doesn’t value our friendship very much; if his pass is successful, our friendship is likely over and if it isn’t successful, our friendship is likely also over.
I think you’re deluding yourself if you think that the goal of hitting on anyone is to make *them * happier. At the point at which you think ‘man, I’d like to be with them,’ your perspective goes right out the window.
There have been times when I’ve thought that my lady friends would be better off without their SO…but I’m not vain enough to think that I was their white knight. Frankly, I’m uncomfortable with the idea of anyone going from ‘involved’ to ‘involved’ without that crucial ‘single again’ period that lets them mull over mistakes made in their previous relationship. But again, that’s just my take on it.
Alright if said relationship has got to the point where you’re having doubts or you’ve decided that you’re going hang with your current SO untill something better comes along. Well, that’s just a shitty thing to do.
The right thing to do is, discuss your feelings with your SO, tell them your intentions, so h/she can decide what they want to do. Now granted, they might still be hurt, but at least you might save them a modicum of humiliation. Which I would think a SO deserves all the respect due in this type of situation. (this barring abusive realationships)
Agreed.
You know when 9/11 happened; I didn’t know anybody in those towers but man I sure felt bad about it. Did you?
Don’t get me wrong I know there’s a BIG difference between 9/11 and porking some ones SO.
But still, where is the line drawn between carring about strangers in a burning tower and carring about a stranger who is about to be cheated on by h/her SO?
And as far as making YOU and h/him happier? Refer back to the first quote.
If this is your mentality; then you were never truely commited to the relationship to begin with. When you’re in a relationship that means all bets are on the table. It also means you turn off the mentality of “Maybe there’s some one better out there for me” I guess in a way relationships require a “leap of faith” so to speak.
I agree, but still as I said above; where do you draw the line before you care about people you don’t know? And why on earth would you disrespect a total stranger like that? It only serves to make you look like an ass.
There is no harm. I think anybody with an IQ higher than their shoe size knows better than to get all upset when an unknowning stranger hits on there SO. (I’d take it as a compliment personally)
But lord help you if she tells you no and you keep trying anyway. Your likely to get your face broke if I find out about it. Not because I’m affraid she might accept your advances but because you just disrespected my girl. And I just can’t have that. Not that I’m a Billy-bad-ass of anything, but still.