Why am I so hopeless with women (rare photo evidence)? (long)

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

This is me. with the lovely Gundy, courtesy of th1nksn0w, at ChiDope.

Note the pursed lips, the head appearing to be on the edge of exploding… What was I thinking? I have no memory of the moment, but Gundy was as delightful to chat with as she is to be seen with. :slight_smile:

Of course I knew Gundy was there with a SO, and I was constrained from making any propositions, but with my history I likely would have found any number of excuses to shy away, or at least not to pursue an unattached Gundy-like woman, in the (almost entirely forlorn) hopes of being pursued, invited out, whatever.

Somewhere along the line, I came up with this theory about attractive women (all those Gundies out there). I figured they were leered at, hit on, invited out, whatever… way more than they liked, and that I could somehow stand out by treating in what amounts to (when I think about having to define it) a sexually neutral persona. I am friendly and chatty; I don’t make any kind of references to how good they look. Somehow women would notice this honorable behavior, and seek out my company.

And it has often worked, with married women, or single women who seem to have no sexual interest in me. I wonder if I am sometimes being percived as gay and therefor “harmless”. I wonder if I am missing subtle, or not so subtle hints from women, and don’t respond because I can imagine *non-sexual[/ I] connotations. I have been in the role of “good male friend” too many times.

Here is the scoop on the latest woman who I haved feared to, and not yet, asked out. Her name is Pat, she is a beautiful nurse-pactitioner who operates a “midlife” medical clinic. She is funny and gracious, but we have never spent more than two or three minutes in conversation together, and we have exchanged some small personal histories. She is a specialist about the physiology and sexuality of people our age (we’re both 43). She is single with a 20 year old daughter (not nearly as hot :p), straight, and no SO. I am basically an audiovidual/computer specialist (I run a conference center in the hospital, and my office is next to hers).

I met her when I started this job in late October. In virtually our first exchange (outside of a formal intro by my boss – Pat is not in the same line of command as me) she said to me, “Do you find me intimidating? A lot of men do”. I asked her if she believed she was projecting an intimdating image, and sidestepped answering the question. And clearly, I was intimidated, but to tell the truth it doesn’t take much.

Last Saturday we had probably our longest interaction, as I set up her laptop computer to some data projectors for a public lecture using Powerpoint. She had had some screen resolution problems in the past, her slides had been cut off, or off color. I had no technical responsibility for anything other than the performance of the projectors – ie, it is the internal customerss job to provide a laptop that will run on the hospital’s projectors. But I managed to reset everything, and rearrange her lecture, so after some equipment failures (that I tested and caught in advance) so that it went without a hitch, apparently for the first time in her memory. Anyway, I was somewhat the geek hero of the hour. And I am actually that a lot at work, because I have WAY more experience with computers, media equipment and special event planning than anybody else they’ve ever had.

And Pat and my most intimate moment was this: after her lecture, She was in her office trying to, and unable to reset her screen resolution to its normal setting. I offered to help, asked if I could have a seat. She replied, “You can have anything you want”. I chuckled and said something like, “You should be careful with your terminology”. Her response was to actually (shiver!) touch my arm and say, “I say that in the knowledge that you are a good man”. I said that was very kind, and we went on our separate ways for the day (I was still woking at this event, she was done). I haven’t seen her since – she works 3 days a week at another clinic, and only Friday afternoons next to me.

Was she sending me an invitation to pursue further, just giving me a polite compliment? I get a lot of things on this vein, and I always choose to interpret them in the least suggestive way. It’s safer.

But in the past there’s been a significant change in MY life. I’m moving into this complex, a pretty drastic lifestyle upscaling for me.

I imagine this approach, as I show her the pictures. I hope she will be tempted to say something like, “Can I swim in your pool?” and I will respond something like. “I think you would make an elegant poolside companion. You would be most welcome.” Too indirect? Not aggressive enough? Too creepily serious? What if she doesn’t ask the question?

I’ve also imagined sending her a link to this thread. Would that be too creepy?

I really have a terror of rejection, and one thing I am looking for is how how to make more indirect approaches that can be turned aside with less stress to both sides. But then again, why plan for failure?

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Too formal. Say, “Sure thing! How about a swim and BBQ on Sunday afternoon?”

And yes, she was hitting on you. She gave you the best signal a woman can w/o outright asking YOU out.

You look perfectly normal, you’re not ugly, you have a good job, a stable life, you come to her rescue occasionally, you’re friendly with her, you’re a “good man”…why wouldn’t she be sending you a signal?

Go, go, go! You work in a hospital, there’s gotta be a cafeteria there, ask her to have lunch or coffee and get to know each other better!

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  1. Some women like geeks.
  2. Many (almost all the good ones) women like thoughtful, considerate men.
  3. Any woman (that you’re not already close friends with) that tells you “you can have anything you want” and then doesn’t back off when you call her on it is not going to say no when you ask her out.

I promise.

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I second this! Third this! Whatever! The pool is too much…I personally would not be comfortable in that situation for a first date…and besides, isn’t that Wisconsin? It’s gonna be months before that’s a good choice, right?

We women don’t touch your arm unless we are interested…so start with a situation where the rejection, if there is any, won’t be as painful…and going to the caf. to get coffee seems painless. Just be sure to ask at about the time she normally takes a break. Otherwise, she may have to say no due to the press of work, not because she doesn’t wanna. And good luck! I’d date you if I wasn’t working on my own shy guy

5

I wouldn’t. I did something similar several years ago, and ended up totally creeping the woman out. I didn’t talk to her again for 3 years. However…that was me and my object of desire, this is you and yours. Reactions might be totally different, but why risk it? I’m willing to bet everyone else here has the right idea. Coffee’s always a good start.

And regardless of whether or not she falls for you, you’ll still have her as a friend (I know, it’s a bad word when that’s not the label you’re looking for). And she’s sure to have other friends your age who would fall.

Best of luck.

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I can say with at least 90% certainity that if a woman says that in the context you gave, what she means is, “I’m interested in you, and I think you’re a great guy.”

I wouldn’t send a link though - do you really want her peeking in on all of us? :wink:

7

::note to self: arm-touching is not a sign that you have lint on your arm::

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Neato! First time I’ve ever done a vanity search (thanks to Esprix for giving me the idea) and there’s something in there! Whee! And: that picture is…well, it’s something. For those who haven’t had the chance, yojimboguy is even more pleasant in person than the picture suggests. So, like, I totally, like, am stoked to hear, that like, you liked me too! Oh my god!

yojimboguy, I’ll be perfectly frank. I thought you were charming and funny and I truly did enjoy talking to you. I also thought that it was very clear that you were avoiding any suggestion of impropriety. Sort of like talking to my male boss - which is far nicer than it sounds. I was comfortable talking to you because you weren’t (obviously, at least) checking out my boobs. I think that most if not all women expect men to give them the once-over upon first meeting. When that doesn’t happen, it’s certainly noticed. Me personally, I appreciate that - it takes the weirdness out of a first face-to-face conversation. But - if you maintained that distance over a period of time, I would assume that you weren’t interested or attracted, and carry on from there.

So from the general to the specific. In the case of one Miss Pat, my advice:

DON’TS:

  1. Don’t send her a link. Could be weird.
  2. As much as I hate to say it, don’t use the “elegant poolside companion” line. It seems very detached and, like Sue said, formal. I think it would send the wrong message. Maybe something like, “Hey foxy mama! Just skimmed the flies off the ol’ pool - wanna skinny dip with the Big Poppa?”
  3. Maybe it would be best to forgo the pool idea for now. Speaking for myself, the idea of being in a bathing suit on a first date is, uh, intimidating. Start small and low-pressure, like a walk for ice cream cones or something. It’s an activity. so you won’t have to stare at each other the whole time, but it allows for a healthy chat. And, you can do the hand-on-the-small-of-the-back thing when you go through a door. Some chicks dig that…like me.

DOS:

  1. Relax! The arm touch, the “anything you want” and “good man” comments - big big signals. She’s warm for your form, baby!
  2. The ball’s in your court. Make the move, and do it soon. It doesn’t have to be a big gesture (big fancy dinner), but something small and encouraging to her, just to get you two alone.
  3. Check back in here. I want to know what happens, any way you do it.

yojimboguy, you’re a catch. I’m not blowing sunshine up your ass, honest. Rejection is painful, I know, believe me. But at some point, you’ve just gotta suck it up. How often do opportunities like this present themselves?

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DUDE THATS MY APARTMENT COMPLEX!!!

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WowGundy, you’re pretty nice looking!

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yo, you should ask the mods the change the title of this thread, you are a MAGNET, dude! This Pat woman definitely opened the door for you to step through. Start with the lunch/coffee thing. It’ll move from there at it’s own pace.

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It sounds to me that you are ‘hopeless with women’ only in your own mind. This is a common malady suffered by many males, though most grow out of it before graduating from high school (I was a little bit behind the curve in this developmental process.)
Please allow yourself to be persuaded by the unanimous opinion of respondents: this woman likes you and is almost certain to be pleased by and say yes to your invitation to get together with her.
Make it casual and fairly short–the coffee break is a good plan–so that you will be relaxed and you won’t feel ‘pressured’ by your (insane and inevitable) thought that you are responsible for keeping a conversation with her witty, charming, and delightful. When you talk to her, pretend like she’s your sister. Then you won’t clam up and get all nervous. (Just remember that after the first couple of dates, you must stop thinking of her as your sister.)
You won’t be rejected. But even if you were, even worse would be never to have tried and to pine away about her for the rest of your life. That’s my $0.02–keep the change.

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Dude, the Chinese place underneath is good, the liquor store is decently stocked, the deli is fine, but the pizza sucks. Family video has decent deals during the week, and your so close to everything, except for State st. sigh The pool is great, and the hottub is fun as well, there usually quite a few people in it later on in the summer time.

I haven’t had one complaint since I moved in last year. My building is so quiet I feel sometimes that I am living in a tomb. Parking is never a problem, and no one has ever messed with my car. I love it here, and won’t be moving anytime soon.

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::note to self: tell that woman I have a crush on at work (who’s in a long-term relationship) to stop touching my arm when she talks to me::

15

I’d like to suggest you modify your philosophy somewhat. While I agree that women don’t like someone who is overbearing or leering, I think you’re going way too far with this! Women like it when someone finds them attractive or desirable. As long as you show some tact (i.e. don’t stare at their breasts) and are respectful, most people are flattered and pleased by someone indicating interest.

You’re always the “good male friend”, because you’re not leaving yourself room to be anything else. Stop thinking woman don’t want you to like them. They do! Many women are looking for a nice guy exactly like you! They just don’t want to have to drag you kicking and screaming into their lives.

Don’t wait for them to put up a flashing sign (like the woman in your OP obviously has). Make the first move! Confidence and decisiveness are generally considered positive male traits. Even if you ask someone out and they decline, you will look (and feel) the better for it, as you are a confident guy going after what you want. Be brave! It’s worth it.

16

I wouldn’t show her pictures of your new apartment complex.
However tell her you are moving and give some idea that you are terrible at arranging furniture.

She will offer to come over and help you. (women love to tell men where to move furniture)

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Thank you kindly, Barking Spider. Great face I’m making, huh! Unfortunately, that’s pretty typical.

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Yojimboguy, your body language in the picture is a text-book picture of “not wanting to appear threatening or interested in a sexual way”. I’m curious about what you have to benefit from appearing to be completely disinterested in women.

Pat is 43 years old; she’s not a giggling schoolgirl that doesn’t know the value of a good man. She will probably be very mature with you if you ask her out; she will say yes because she wants to, or she will say no in a nice way, and not let it affect your working relationship.

(Just out of curiosity, you like women a lot, don’t you? A little too much, you think, sometimes?)

19

What Giraffe said.

Or, let me tell you a story. My lovely Mr. Bean was another one who didn’t want to seem overly aggressive towards women. And boy did they ever try! This one chick at his old job (in a restaurant) was forever nibbling on his shoulder. He thought she was just being friendly. :rolleyes: Meanwhile, he had a big ol’ crush on this friend of his, and he didn’t want to “hit on her.” He thought he should wait to have a “proper” date. Scheduling conflicts abounded, and by the time he was able to take her on a date and make a pass at her, she said “but I thought you were gay!” And yes, he was usually relegated to the “good male friend role.” In other words, women were often quite attracted to him, but he tried so hard to be the good guy who wasn’t going to try to take advantage of them, that they quit trying to get him to meet them halfway.

Then he met me. And he really really liked me right off the bat. So he decided to be more aggressive for once. And I guess it worked. (6 years and counting) It’s a good thing he did, because I wouldn’t have pursued him. I thought he was cute and all (who wouldn’t?) but I was not really interested in dating at that moment, and even if I was, I wasn’t a big pursuer of guys. But he started to invite me to do stuff and I accepted and it was the beginning of a wonderful relationship.

My vote–casually invite Pat to lunch in the caf–as in “I was going down for a sandwich. Are you hungry?” Then at lunch mention that you are moving and you are clueless about curtains or something. If she offers to help, take her up on it. And there you go.

Any past failure has nothing to do with this situation. You like this lady, and she obviously likes you back. Good luck.

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It seems that several people in this thread are counselling you to forget that sentence. My question to you: is this the kind of thing that you would say in ordinary conversation? Don’t rehearse your approach too much, but if this is your usual way of talking, then don’t change it. Rule number one (in my book) is be yourself.
Not every woman likes the “sure hot mama, come on over for a brewski” lingo. And so what if your sentence might sound formal or stilted? If your colleague is going to make that a deal breaker then she is looking only at the superficial aspects of your personality.