Before the Jews were persecuted by modern christians they wereput into slavery by the Egyptians. Maybe this reiterated the point of the modern Christian movement, to have their idea of the paramount of civilisation back up the idea through the very dusts of time?
It does seem deeper seated than the Christian era
Lloyd
Do you have any historical support for the idea that the Egyptians enslaved Jews, as depicted in Exodus?
No, I would not see that as an early example of antisemtism (also the secular view of the Egyptian exile is that it was only the Jewish elite who were taken to Egypt when they were conquered), I think it was pretty much par for the course that when you conquered a people in those days you were completely free to make them your slaves.
The question is were Jews subject to anymore hate than was usually accorded to other peoples practising a different religion, having a different culture, etc. living amongst the rest of the populace? That obviously is a very difficult question to answer as the status of the Jews in Europe was pretty unique. The nearest comparision I can think of is the treatment of the Romany.They were treated in a pretty simliar way (to the Jews), which leads me to think that the reasons for their persecution was pretty simlair (i.e different culture, etc, etc.)
Also, the money aspect has been mentioned many times, but it is worth noting before the 1800’s, except for a few notable exceptions, the vast majority of Jews living in Europe were alot poorer than their neighbours and lived a rural lifestyle in eastern Europe.
To be honest, that thing about being “God’s Chosen People” is a bit annoying.
I think the root of the problem is that Jewish culture and religion resists assimilation so well. Rarely, another culture will make contributions to it, and Jewish people often make contributions to the culture they exist in, but it doesn’t actually mix all that well.
As the earlier posters have noted, Judaism does well in pluralistic cultures (although that’s when it begins to assimilate the most IMO).
While I’m not a master of ancient history, I can easily see why Jew have had problems since 1967. Can anyone say ‘seized land’? How about ‘oppression and dislocation of indigenous peoples’? While this can be looked at as the actions of a repressive government (regardless of religion) people tend to associate Israel’s actions with general Jewish ideology. In fact, the Israeli government even promotes this equality by accusing anyone of criticizing them as anti-semetic.
There is also the percieved ‘jewish conspiracy’. While I am not qualified to say that it exists or it doesn’t, there is the perception that it exists. It is true that Jews are in control of the majority of American media. There are many high ranking Jews in the U.S. government. There are MANY affluent Jews. The numbers are way out of proportion when looking at the % of Jews in the general population. This creates the appearance of a conspiracy.
This type of disparity seems to me to be the cause of many of Jew’s historical problems. Since Jews don’t have any homeland, they can always be seen as something of foreigners. Foreigners, expecially affluent ones, are typical targets for an angry society (as Germany was rightfully so after WWI).
As Eve said in the first reply - Jealousy. Jealousy over perceived affluence, success, intelligence, etc. Notice the ‘perceived’. The masses’ perceptions can always be subtly altered by the government to achieve any goal. Add to this the historical association of Jews with banking and finance. The banker taking away your house or business is usually not in your favor - especially when you see him driving his nice new car.
Just a quick note: When a good friend of mine was young and living in North Carolina (around 20 years ago), she was shocked to learn that her rural friends had really never seen a Jew and actually thought that they had horns. No kidding!
I think the answer is pretty straightforward and ultimately simple. Jews are universally hate much like the laywer (or politician) in America is hated.
They both tended to get rich seemingly effortlessly.
There is suspicion of corruption when some people get rich when others around them do not (thats the jealousy thing)
Lawyers are considered bastards due to their skill in debate and aggressive demeanor, jews were considered bastards due to their strict loyalty of their faith and cultural behavior alien to most europeans.
Jews were powerful thru their control of money. In the middle ages, thats all that counted. Lawyers are hated thru their knowledge of the law which turns them into politicians and then they satrt making stupid laws.
In the late 1800s, a book falsely accuses the jews of forming a secret society that seeks to take control of the world. It became a best seller overnight and certain nazis took it to heart. This false belief is perpetuated by neo-nazis and white supremacists in america by citing the number of major business either run by jews or are controlled by jews are have accountants that are jews.
Heaven help all jewish lawyers. They are doubly hated.
Not all Jews are rich, not all rich people are Jews, not all Jews who are rich got rich “effortlessly” as opposed to getting rich by hard work, not all people who got rich “effortlessly” (by inheriting money, say) are Jews…
Where are the Protocols of the Elders of WASPdom? One could make just as good (or just as bad) a case that those ee-vil “WASPs” are people who “tend to get rich seemingly effortlessly”.
It may be that the perception that Jews are people who “get rich seemingly effortlessly” is “related” to anti-Semitism, but that just raises the question, where did that perception come from? The belief that “Jews tend to get rich seemingly effortlessly” is an effect of anti-Semitism rather than a cause of anti-Semitism.
Too bad. It doesn’t mean what you apparently think it means. All it means is that the Jewish belief is they’ve been chosen to follow a certain set of laws. You’re not obligated to follow that set.
Maintaining one’s identity is a bad thing?
Yes, but what you are stating here is the truth. People dont hate other people because of the truth. Its the little lies that they make about other people that creates the hate.
Yes the truth is not all jews are rich, jews dont own all the major indiustries, they arent all corrupt and greedy and strange.
I think the false perception is the seed of prejudice. If you knew the truth about someone then what would your reasons be to hate a whole group of people?
Uhm, back to the Rome thing…
The Jews got on fairly well with Rome, as far as I know. While they did have that initial clash over the lack of identification of Yahweh with a Roman god, they worked out a peace, mostly because (and this is still with us today, obviously!) either they were or they decided to henceforth be a non-prolesetyzing religion. As long as they weren’t stirring up trouble, it was all good.
The Christians, however… ooo, they were stirring things up. And I have never heard that the Jews specifically went to the Romans to say that Christianity was not Jewish. It seems sort of unlikely.
Well … not exactly “fairly well.”
There was a small matter of two failed rebellions in which the Romans killed off almost all the Jews, and sold almost all the rest off as slaves, beginning the Diaspora, and leaving two main sects of Jews extant: The Rabbinites - who begat modern Judaism; and those Jews called Christians, who begat a new faith entirely that was embraced and distributed by the Romans under Constatine. Who commenced the age of modern anti-semitism.
This is a good point, when did antisemtism start? The Roman exile doesn’t seem to me to be motivated by antisemtism, when a people rebelled against the Romans more than once their number was pretty much up. I would say that it’s linked to the spread of Christianity which by it’s nature is intolerant of rival religions.
My point was, the Romans never persecuted Jews for being Jews, like they did Christians for being Christians. They persecuted Jews cause, well, the Jews were starting wars. Once that stopped, so did the killing.
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It certainly implies that the Jews are special (at least, I know several Jews who think that way).
Would you argue that they’re punished by being singled out?
A culture is never automatically one’s identity: it must be constantly recreated.
A bad thing? Not necessarily, but it always carries a price.
I am qualified. It does not exist. If it existed, I would get the newsletter.
I’m not surprised. I’ve had this experience numerous times (never seen a Jew, Jews killed Jesus, Jews have horns) in the not-so-deep South and even in rural Pacific Northwest. It’s intersting to me that most people who aren’t Jewish think I’m joking when I report this, while those who *are[/] generally believe me.
I’ve also heard any number of people use the expressions “Jewed it up” or “kiked it up” out here in the PNW who, when addressed about this, are shocked to discover that these phrases refer in a derogatory way to Jews.
Actually, it doesn’t. All that it means is that they have a belief that their deity gave them a set of laws said deity expects them to follow. Got a problem with that and it’s your problem, not theirs.
Let’s try to keep this in the realm of rational and logical discourse, okay. I wouldn’t “argue” that. It’s been incredibly obvious for many years now that Jews have been singled out for punishment, but to blame their deity for the prejudice of fools doesn’t even pass the laugh test.
No kidding. Got a point there?
Incorrect assertion.
Monty: I don’t know why you have a chip on your shoulder, but I suggest you remove it.
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A problem? I don’t have any problem with it.
I’ve heard many people (including quite a few Christian theologians who bear no prejudice against the Jewish people, culture, or religion) claim that God revealed Himself to the Jews because they were the only ones, out of all the peoples of the Earth, who would accept Him. They were meant (it is claimed) to be God’s ambassadors to humanity, acting as an example of truth and virtue, etc.
Regardless of whether you buy into this, it’s a rather commonly-held viewpoint in my experience. It seems clear that the Jews are “special”, one way or another, and no matter how humbly people of Jewish descent act, there are always going to be some idiots who’ll be personally offended by that status. It’s like God established an exclusive club that you can’t enter.
I don’t feel that way – I think the idea of being the “chosen of God” is fairly silly – but there’re always the idiots…
Agreed. So, what was the purpose of God’s giving the Jews special laws (accepting for the moment the religious paradigm)? Neither you nor I think it was to punish the Jews, and it would seem odd to claim that God did it on a whim… so the reasonable conclusion is that the Jews were being favored (somehow).
That will inevitably breed resentment among the weak-minded and hate-filled. Add in the factor of Judaism’s relatively high resistance to assimilation and change, stir in some historical coincidences, and you’ve got a potentially explosive mixture.
Correct assertion. “Doing one’s own thing” always carries a price. I never implied that it wasn’t worth paying… and, of course, those who exert the price in the first place are bigoted morons. Nevertheless, ignoring the price simply because it wouldn’t exist in a perfect world is unreasonable.
The chip I have on my shoulder is when I see someone throw out the same trite malarkey that’s been used to demonize and punish an entire race or religion for centuries.
It doesn’t matter a whit what the Christian theologians (you do realize, I would hope, that there’s a huge spectrum of them) say it means…it’s what the Jews say it means to them that matters.
Plus, you just reiterated the incorrect meaning of “chosen by God.” Let’s try this again: It doesn’t mean that anyone’s better. It just means that the Jews believed that their deity chose them to follow a particular set of laws. Now, if the weak minded and hate-filled as you call them want to re-intepret it (see my comment above about the Christian theologians), then they’ve no ground to stand on for their re-interpretation.
There are situations where “doing your own thing” doesn’t exact a price just as there are numerous situations where it does. To say that’s always is incorrect.