Why are Jews hated so much?

Here’s a hint:

Any explanation that starts out with Alexander the Great issuing orders that Romans cheerfully accept as their own should probably be accepted only with great caution.

One of the successors to Alexander was the Antiochus who demanded that the Jews honor him as a god, leading to the Maccabean rebellions. It was the appeal to Rome by the Jewish nation in their ongoning struggles against Greek hegemony that allowed the Romans to get a toe-hold in that region to begin with.

The Jews and the Romans were always a bit tense over the issue of Caesar=God. During the period of Nero, Jews and Christians were alike persecuted for not worshipping Nero in Rome. (That persecution did not extend much outside the city of Rome where Nero exercised direct control–he was not actually as interested in the empire as in garnering personal accolades that he could see.) In the 90s, Domitian proclaimed an empire-wide cult of the emperor and, again, Jews were persecuted along with Christians. There were, in fact, rather few Roman emperors who actually promulgated the cult of the emperor very strongly.


A point on usury: one reading of Scriptures prohibits the Jews from charging “use” on other Jews but not on Gentiles. The Christians used the same logic to prohibit use charges between Christians while permitting those charges on Jews (or Muslims). Each group lent money to the other. The issue became one of contention basically because there was a much larger customer base for the Jews (the Christian majority) and a much smaller customer base for the Christians (the Jewish minority). Eventually, any wealth to be had by charging interest tended to accumulate in the Jewish community–leading to jealousy and charges of unfairness. In fact, both groups were playing by the same rules, initially. When people bring up the issue of usury, they need to realize two things: 1) it was initially practiced by everyone (who had money to lend) and 2) that the word, in those days, simply meant charging interest. We use the word, now, to mean something like loan sharking, (and the continued reference to Jews engaging in that bad old usury (as opposed to noting that they charged interest) is probably an example of using the language to perpetuate bad feelings). This is not new information, in Shakespeare’s Merchant of Venice, Shylock notes the irony of being reviled for usury while the bishops loan money at “interest”–the Christians simply changed the name of the game to allow them to practice the same thing among themselves without feeling that they had violated Scripture.


I also find it interesting that some posters have somehow found that defending the Jews gives them a warrant to attack other groups through innuendo and errors. It should be noted that while there were a few anti-Jewish statement from the Black Panthers, the Panthers were not a resolutely anti-Jewish group. To find a black group that is hostile to Jews, one needs to look at the Nation of Islam–and fringe group, that is not truly associated with Islam, that spreads hate about all others groups, with Farrakhan singling out Jews to excoriate for his own purposes.


I suspect that the reason that Jews have so frequently been subject to persecution has simply been their insistence on practicing their faith. Jews have traditionally thrived in pluralistic societies: Mesopotamia in the years following the fall of Babylon, the pagan Roman empire in those (long) periods when the cult of the emperor was not being pushed, Moorish Spain, Renaissance Netherlands, early Medieval Europe, etc. Jews have traditionally been persecuted when some other (usually religion-based) culture has demanded uniformity: Persia when the Zoroastrians demanded strict adherence, pagan Rome on the few occasions when the cult of the emperor was a principle of the state, late Medieval Europe at the time of the Crusades, re-Christianized Spain under Ferdinand and Isabella, etc.

Note that persecution of Jews in the U.S. has steadily diminished as this society has become more truly pluralistic.

Here’s a hint:

Any explanation that starts out with Alexander the Great issuing orders that Romans cheerfully accept as their own should probably be accepted only with great caution.

One of the successors to Alexander was the Antiochus who demanded that the Jews honor him as a god, leading to the Maccabean rebellions. It was the appeal to Rome by the Jewish nation in their ongoning struggles against Greek hegemony that allowed the Romans to get a toe-hold in that region to begin with.

The Jews and the Romans were always a bit tense over the issue of Caesar=God. During the period of Nero, Jews and Christians were alike persecuted for not worshipping Nero in Rome. (That persecution did not extend much outside the city of Rome where Nero exercised direct control–he was not actually as interested in the empire as in garnering personal accolades that he could see.) In the 90s, Domitian proclaimed an empire-wide cult of the emperor and, again, Jews were persecuted along with Christians. There were, in fact, rather few Roman emperors who actually promulgated the cult of the emperor very strongly.


A point on usury: one reading of Scriptures prohibits the Jews from charging “use” on other Jews but not on Gentiles. The Christians used the same logic to prohibit use charges between Christians while permitting those charges on Jews (or Muslims). Each group lent money to the other. The issue became one of contention basically because there was a much larger customer base for the Jews (the Christian majority) and a much smaller customer base for the Christians (the Jewish minority). Eventually, any wealth to be had by charging interest tended to accumulate in the Jewish community–leading to jealousy and charges of unfairness. In fact, both groups were playing by the same rules, initially. When people bring up the issue of usury, they need to realize two things: 1) it was initially practiced by everyone (who had money to lend) and 2) that the word, in those days, simply meant charging interest. We use the word, now, to mean something like loan sharking, (and the continued reference to Jews engaging in that bad old usury (as opposed to noting that they charged interest) is probably an example of using the language to perpetuate bad feelings). This is not new information, in Shakespeare’s Merchant of Venice, Shylock notes the irony of being reviled for usury while the bishops loan money at “interest”–the Christians simply changed the name of the game to allow them to practice the same thing among themselves without feeling that they had violated Scripture.


I also find it interesting that some posters have somehow found that defending the Jews gives them a warrant to attack other groups through innuendo and errors. It should be noted that while there were a few anti-Jewish statement from the Black Panthers, the Panthers were not a resolutely anti-Jewish group. To find a black group that is hostile to Jews, one needs to look at the Nation of Islam–and fringe group, that is not truly associated with Islam, that spreads hate about all others groups, with Farrakhan singling out Jews to excoriate for his own purposes.


I suspect that the reason that Jews have so frequently been subject to persecution has simply been their insistence on practicing their faith. Jews have traditionally thrived in pluralistic societies: Mesopotamia in the years following the fall of Babylon, the pagan Roman empire in those (long) periods when the cult of the emperor was not being pushed, Moorish Spain, Renaissance Netherlands, early Medieval Europe, etc. Jews have traditionally been persecuted when some other (usually religion-based) culture has demanded uniformity: Persia when the Zoroastrians demanded strict adherence, pagan Rome on the few occasions when the cult of the emperor was a principle of the state, late Medieval Europe at the time of the Crusades, re-Christianized Spain under Ferdinand and Isabella, etc.

Note that persecution of Jews in the U.S. has steadily diminished as this society has become more truly pluralistic.

bup—I think your theory pretty well sums up the gist of the whole issue, and I nominate you for the prize.

SUPERKARLENE—When the Muslims took over Palestine in the 7th century, no, they didn’t turn it over to the Jews, but nonetheless it was a relative improvement. It had been six centuries since the Romans crushed the Jewish rebellion and expelled them all. Now for the first time since then Jews were welcome to move back to Jerusalem and the rest of the Holy Land and live there under Muslim protection. Until the Crusades.

Queequeeq—(How’s Ramadan going?) Well, I just read Karen Armstrong’s A History of God, and she relates how in the 1st century BC Judaism was becoming quite popular among the Romans. Particularly in Egypt. At that time the Romans were turning on to several Eastern religions they found in the Levant, including Mithraism and the Isis cult as well as Judaism. (I think they were starting to get a little bored with Roman religion.) However, Judaism fell out of favor with the Romans in AD 70 because of the rebellion. Very soon after Christianity was declared a “cult.” So that makes Abanes’s theory, interesting as it is, look a little shaky.

WV_Woman—are you prejudiced against Muslims?

Tomndebb - I shall bow down to the master.

As much as I’d like this debate to continue, I do have a small request - could we not turn our love for Judaism into revulsion of other groups? It seems that we’re beginning to get a wee bit prejudicial towards some other racial groups in here…

Jomo Mojo, where have you been before now? :smiley:

They were not all expelled. Had they all been expelled in 70, there would have been no one in the area to rebel in the uprising of 132. And they were not all expelled at that time, either. In fact, the Roman emperor Antoninus Pius relaxed many of the harsher laws that had prompted the uprising of 132 and Jewish schools reopened. It was during this period that, under the direction of Judah the Prince, the Mishna was formed–in Roman Palestine rather than in Babylon or Alexandria, the two other major centers of Jewish scholarship.

Later emperors re-instituted more harsh laws and, living near the borders of the Persian empire, Roman Palestine found itself in rebellion against or re-subjugated by the empire, eventually falling into a state of poverty from which they could not assert a national identity. However, there has never been a period since the Israelites invaded Canaan when there was no Jewish presence in that region.

I’m confused… I’ve always heard that Christians believe that the Jews killed Christ. Obviously, this gives the Christians a reason to dislike Jews, but that doesn’t automatically mean that it’s not true. If the Jews didn’t kill Christ, who did?

Also, BelowJob… how does this professor claim it’s sociobiological (assuming that’s a word)? If you use his reasoning, every group would hate every other group for “evolutionary sense”. Better to kill than to be killed. And better to protect your own, whatever group you belong to.

Finally, Paul… where did you get the number 15 million? Is this generally accepted? What is your source?

Max - I believe Cecil answered your question a while back. Check the Archives. I believe his answer boiled down to socio-cultural influences, not any one group.

I’d also like to hear more about this sociobiological explanation. From a strictly evolutionary standpoint, I’m reticent to say it, but I think it does make sense. Evolution’s premise is that groups are constantly at odds with each other to see who will ultimately survive and have control of resources. To me, it seems a mere extension of that concept that various human races would feel at odds with each other. Does that justify their hatred of each other?

NO!

It’s just another reason for us to rise above the animals and try to peacefully coexist, to prove that we are a creation that is truly unique in the sight of God. (Or Allah, or Yahweh, or Vishnu, or Mother Nature, or what have you.)

Ask and ye shall receive: Who killed Jesus?

Regarding the number of Jews in the world, according to ReligiousTolerance.org (with links to specific sources) there are currently 18 million adherents to Judaism. If one uses the counting of persecutors (who tend to look at “ethnic” Jews who may not actually be observing any religion) the number may be a bit higher.

if it had not been for the holocaust, israel probably would not exist today. the arabs are paying for centuries of european antipathy for the jews.

the catholic church has fostered this social psychological problem and protestants continued it. Martin Luther was a vicious antisemite even tho the word hadn’t been invented yet. jews could not own land in europe for centuries so they had to do other things. the church objected to usury so it created a monopoly for the jews. people don’t like owing other people money.

blaming jews without looking at european history and socialpsychology is nonsense.

i have a theory about jewish intelligence. look at catholic masses. stand up, sit down, genuflect, genuflect. like soldiers on a parade ground. the catholic church didn’t want people to think, resisted having bibles in current languages. the christian religions sabotage brain development, while judaism has children studying and DEBATING the laws of the prophets. much better mental exercise.

some people don’t like smart people.

Dal Timgar

Cause all you gentiles are jealous of how WE RULE! Yeah! Jews kick ASS!! Goyim can SUCK IT!! Plus we are the best dancers and have almost painfully large male genitals (except for our women, they have regular sized male members).

I never fully understood this line of reasoning anyway. Even if you want to say that the Jews were responsible for the death of Jesus, consider:

  1. The majority of Jews at that time were not in Israel, but in Babylon. Even if you want to say that the majority of Jews were in Israel, you certainly can’t say that the majority were in Jerusalem when Jesus was being tried. Thus, the vast majority of Jews at that time couldn’t have been responsible for the death of Jesus.

  2. Even if they were responisble, they are all dead today.

  3. And if you want to rely on the verse in Matthew (27:25) “His blood shall be on us and on our children!” and say that the Jews that were there really did make that statement, does that really make all Jews responsible for all time? Does it even make the descendants of those Jews that were there responsible? If your great-great grandfather killed someone and said “and my children will be responsible for it too…” will you agree to take some punishment as well? Of course not!

So considering the fact that:

a) the Jews weren’t responsible for Jesus’ death.
b) even if they were, the vast majority of Jews were not there at the time
c) even if the ones who were there were responsible, you can’t assign guilt and blame to your children
d) even if you could assign guilt and blame to your children, the vast majority of Jews today are descended from those that weren’t within a hundred miles of Jerusalem at the time.

I know that none of this matters one whit to those who simply hate us, but, nonetheless, I always found the “Jews killed Jesus” argument one of the stupidest.

Zev Steinhardt

Read your scripture,
The pentateuch in the books of Deuteronomy ch. 28 and Leviticus ch.26 specifically tells Israel that curses shall be upon them and their descendants forever if they should break their covenant with God.

It started with the dehumanizing of the nation of Israel as a whole during their enslavement. After the Exodus and the laws of Moses were handed down, the people condemned themselves to a future of persecution simply because of the impossible standard they set for themselves.

“Be perfect” or else…well it’s been or else for a few thousand years now. I think the Bible says forever!

This does not take away from all the excellent answers that have been posted. These are many of the ways in which this “self fullfilling prophesy” has manifested itself to an entire population (Nation), if not the world as a whole. It gives us an excuse to dehumanize as well.

I mean really, who do you actually HATE as a group, “race”, or whatever? Most of the atrocities in history were actually perpetuated by a small number of people, relatively speaking. But was allowed to continue while WE the masses turned away.

Nothing new, it is still going on somewhere at this very minute.

Peace

Let’s pretend for a moment that the crucifixion was solely the fault of the Jews.

So what?

  1. It had to happen anyway.
  2. Christians believe Jesus rose after 3 days, so no harm done.

Actually Christians should be thankful to whomever assisted in Jesus’ resurrection. Also in Jesus’ words, they had no choice and didn’t 'know" what they were doing anyway.

Kinda f@#&s free will up don’t it. ;j

t-keela:

Whoever, not whomever.

And not all Christians bought into that “condemn everyone for the actions of one” bit. My church for one says that people will be punished for their own wrongdoing and “not for Adam’s.”

Sorry Monty, you lost me there. It’s late and I’ve been up for too long. Your point was…

My point is that

should read

The 2nd paragraph is a general thing in which I note that at least one Christian church doesn’t even entertain the idea that “the Jews killed Christ.”

A critique of MacDonald’s views, in the popular press.

MacDonald in his own words.

In the beginning the Romans were invited in to take over rule and then the Jews came to regret this arrangement. The first revolt was in 66 AD.

The dispora was started when the Jews were exiled to Babylon (approx 500 BC). When they were allowed to return to Israel, some remained in Babylon and this was the first segment of the dispora. Saul (better known as Paul) was born in Antioch and had been converted to Christianity prior to the revolt in 66 AD. The reason there were money changers in the Temple was that money was coming in from the dispora from many parts of the world. Jesus threw them out prior to the revolt. There was a large community of Jews in Alexandra, Egypt that some claim that Mary (Mother of Jesus) joined (a reverse Exodus if you will) after the death of Jesus. The dispora was well established before the Jews revolted against Rome.

My entry for when it began was back in the first books of the O.T. when a group of Jews met a group of Gentiles and converted them. Part of this required the Gentiles to be circumcized and as they lay around recovering the Jews killed them. Very bad PR, if you ask me. :frowning: