While absent in the US, there’s no shortage of evidence on the global stage that people will readily vote for populist strongmen in the majority, under a fair election. Passing by Trump, we still have the various wounds that have been inflicted over time by trying to push things ever-so-more towards populist democracy and trying to remove any sanity filters.
We should have tiered electoral systems, voting systems that favor compromise candidates, etc. Without that, Trump or no, we’ve had the weaknesses exposed and the next guy could be smart enough to properly utilize it.
January 6 failed because it was a pathetic attempt. It was completely illegal. The only way it could have worked was via force of arms and they obviously didn’t have that.
You get shameful articles with clickbait titles like this one:
Yet when you actually read it, it’s clear that the title was a lie. There was no way it could have worked. All it’s saying is that it could have caused more chaos and damaged democracy. Sure it could have, I believe that, but it would have still ended with Biden as POTUS.
The idea that Trump came so close to pulling it off if only Pence had gone along or if they’d just executed it better is a fantasy.
There is never, ever a final victory again tyranny, a point at which we say we won and can relax. There is only endless, endless vigilance, punctuated with (hopefully brief) periods of intensely urgent struggle.
The coming SCOTUS ruling on Trump’s immunity claim should give us an idea of how completely committed they are to protecting DJT. Just the fact that they are delaying the ruling says something there. If they rule in his favor on immunity, I’m going to think they would have ruled for him in 2021 (or refused to take the case, effectively allowing Trump to remain as president).
So which part of your quote says Trump would be POTUS? None of it.
If they rule that the POTUS can literally do anything without consequence then the country is over which is why it’s absurd to give it any kind of credence. Let’s just stop that kind of thought now.
The most they would do, and it’s bad enough, is give some minor consideration to some very specific circumstances with limited immunity.
Don’t think I’m downplaying the danger here. They’re chipping away at democracy. They’re directly attacking this country. There is absolutely an attempt to wiggle into fascism. But it’s not going to be some huge slam-dunk declaration by the SCOTUS or anyone else. That’s Qanon level fantasy.
I posted this link in MPSIMS but it seems more relevant in this thread. Home - What if Trump (or Biden) wins… There is a “choose your own adventure” exercise on the page that outlines different strategies and tactics to think about if Trump wins.
It may be food for thought. That the US will continue to be run by and for a plutocracy regardless of who wins is also worth thinking about.
At oral arguments, they made pretty clear they won’t say that. They may shred most of Jack Smith’s indictment without giving Joe Biden protection in event he is a one-termer.
You agree that people are “acting like a Biden win will defeat facism?”
I for one will not breathe easy just because Biden wins, IF he wins. And the responses in this thread seem to indicate that I’m hardly alone.
Who is it that you think is taking the placid view that “if Biden wins, we’ll be fine”?
I admit I was closer to that view in 2016, because I thought that, between the blow to his ego and his evident laziness, Trump would give up and spend the rest of his life sulking at Mar a Lago. I was wrong then, and I’ve learned from it. Trump himself will die at some point, but he has energized a terribly malignant force in the world. Even if better forces momentarily triumph in the coming years, and I sure as hell hope they do, there is a lot to worry about and fight against.
I’m 65; maybe I’ll live another 20 years and remain lucid during most or all of that if I’m reasonably lucky. I fully expect to be worried about the fate of the US and the world until I’m on my deathbed, with or without a Biden win in 2024.
I urge anyone who hasn’t seen it to watch yesterday’s Last Week Tonight. The extreme right is very organized around Project 2025, which goes all-in on the Unitary Executive Theory, which will allow them to blow up much of the executive branch (for example, eliminating NOAA, which is the root of climate change fear mongering) and weaponizing the rest through something called Schedule F (making almost all senior level federal employees political appointees). One example is they plan to replace the FDA with political toadies who will revoke approval of abortion drugs with no input from Congreve, the courts, or anyone else.
An absolutely terrifying episode which makes it clear that “unitary executive” is the next best thing to dictator.
Sure, but the issue with Right wing Populists is that they make promises they cant keep, so they lose the next election.
Fine? I think trump will be gone- he is already babbling. Biden 2024 will likely get to select at least two new justices.So of course there will still be problems, but I think the Dems will control both houses, then put in two new more liberal justices.
One GOP leader said if they dont win the senate this election, they wont win it again.
Because having not a fascist for four years is a better than having a fascist for four years. That is all we are voting on this year. Simple choice: Jan 2025 does a fascist regain the whitehouse or not?
We don’t get to vote for 2028 this year. So yeah it’s worth every effort to ensure we answer “no not a fascist”
No fucking body. Not one. NOT A SINGLE PERSON is saying that threat is over if Biden wins. But it would still be a massive cause for celebration.
Why are you acting like there was a “no more fascists forever” option on the ballot and we all decided “lets not be too hasty!”
Because Trump is a disease for which we will likely have developed sufficient antibodies, in order to prevent a relapse by any similar ailment any time soon.
A country that elected Obama to two terms not so long ago is not suddenly on the verge of becoming “fascist”.
A particular victory may be important (and this one certainly is), but nobody believes that any one victory is permanent. As a wise wizard once said: “Always after a defeat and a respite, the shadow takes another shape and grows again.”
Because mature democracies generally beat fascists. And the Nazis were a lot tougher than today’s alt-right freaks.
If Trump wins it won’t be the end of the world. It will be a fight. If Trump wins in 2024 there will be no guarantee that the 2028 election will be free and fair. The Republicans will lock down Congress and the Presidency, just like the Democrats locked down the South during the Jim Crow era. Since this would be on a national level there are all sorts of middle income countries that have gone through an analogous experience over the past decades: I’ve read about them in the Economist magazine. I thought the US had stronger anti-bodies against tyranny than turned out to be the case. Plenty of Republicans who should know better approve of Trump and will tolerate an end to our 240 year experiment with democracy.
I’d expect an increase in cronyism, slower economic growth, higher real interest rates. I’d expect possibly higher inflation if and only if the Trump successfully compromises Fed independence (unlikely IMO). None of this is the end of the world: Mexicans, Colombians, Brazilians, Venezualians, Hungarians, Malaysia, and Suriname have managed dictators and middling inequitable economic growth in the past and present. Somehow. But it will be a fight.
Yes, this. Tyranny whether fascist or otherwise isn’t some living enemy that can be killed. It’s not even an ideology. It’s a set of attitudes and desires that can develop anytime and anyplace due to flaws in human psychology and isn’t something that can be killed.
Literally nobody is pretending like a Biden win is a permanent victory over fascism. Every adult understands that every electoral win over fascism is temporary, we have to do it over and over.
It’s absolutely a tactic, and it’s called accelerationism (or revolutionary defeatism also fits). Leftists are running wild on Twitter right now doing their best to defeat Trump’s opposition. Their hope is voters will blame liberals, reject them and the right wing, and the revolutionary left will rise up from the ashes and rule.
Here are some of their other dumb rhetorical tactics:
voting doesn’t change anything
voting doesn’t defeat fascism
Biden and Trump are exactly the same and completely indistinct
Biden is also a fascist
liberalism is fascism, fascism is liberalism, these 2 are indistinct
Don’t threaten me with a Trump victory, it just makes me vote harder against Biden
Don’t criticize me in any way, it just pushes me away from your position
These people are not adults, they do not care about democracy. To the extent that any of them are serious, their minds are open sewers for Russian and Chinese propaganda. Most of them are from a demographic that will make out just fine under white supremacy; the risk to others doesn’t figure into their calculus at all.
While it’s dangerous to ignore them outright, nobody should be under any illusion that any of them are sincere or persuadable. They are “just asking questions”, they are purposely spreading apathy and confusion because it’s easier to destroy political power than to build it.
