One can be in love without turning into a chump. What you described isn’t love. It’s I’m so desperate, lonely and pathetic that I don’t want to do anything that might rock the boat.
Oh and not taking shit from women does not make you a “misogynist”.
What does he “love” about her? The fact that she respects him so much? What I would have him do is blow her off. Don’t make plans with her. Don’t call her. If she confronts him, I would have him say “look, this isn’t working out.” He should then go fall in love with a girl who will actually commit to what she says she will do instead of drinking in a bar and hanging out in a corn field. What’s your suggestion? He tells her how hurt he was and now she knows that any time she wants to hurt him, she can just blow him off and there won’t be consequences?
And you don’t have to be in love to be a doormat.
I knew plenty of guys who could always be depended on to do any stupid task no one else wants to do. Some sorority girls actually convinced a few of my nerdlier fraternity brothers to dig them out of our driveway. These girls who normally wouldn’t give those guys the time of day get them to dig their cars out of OUR parking lot while they go next door to get banged by their boyfriends? There’s a difference between being helpful and being a tool.
Maybe it’s just me but I’d rather be liked and respected by a small number of people who deserve my friendship than be “liked” by everyone because I always have a stupid smile no matter how badly I’m treated.
It’s no excuse, I know. I am 41 and have learned the hard way that if I allow myself to become involved in relationships with passive men, I will walk all over them. I don’t like knowing this thing about myself. I don’t like myself when I do it. I know it’s wrong. When I was younger, it was a power thing; I liked being in control. But eventually, I found it exhausting. It took one marriage and two relationships to learn that I should not–cannot–date passive men. It will always end badly for both of us. I now date strong, decisive men who aren’t afraid to stand up to me, because sometimes I just need to be reined back in. But because I’m so strong-willed and confrontational, it’s always a struggle to find the right balance with the right person. Most men don’t like women with my characteristics. They enjoy more passive, demure women, generally speaking.
I don’t want you to think that makes me the kind of person who takes advantage of people’s weaknesses, because I’m not. I’m very much a supporter of the underdog. My bowl-over-them attitude in relationships with passive men seems specific to the relationships. I have passive male friends, for example, and though their passivity does annoy me, I’m not compelled to test them, or try to change them. Ditto for many of my female friends, who suffer from the passivity problem far more frequently than my male friends.
Here’s a question… are you a doormat if you don’t really care? I’m leaning towards “no”, but would like to get input.
Let’s say I make plans with my girlfriend to see a movie. She decides a few hours before that she’s not in the mood for a movie, and she’d rather stay at home by herself, take a hot bath, listen to country music, and she’ll call me later. As long as she calls me later, I don’t think I’d be even the slightest bit bothered by her ditching our plans in favor of being by herself. I simply wouldn’t care.
In my other thread, it looks like some people would take huge offense by this and write her off for breaking plans for no reason.
So would I be a doormat in this situation? Doormat, to me, implies that my feelings would be hurt by it.
It’s not a matter of your feelings being hurt, it’s a matter of making sure you know you have an opinion. Either you wanted to go out, you didn’t want to go out, or you were undecided. If you tell her it’s okay because you weren’t really that sure you wanted to go out and you are fine with not going, that’s a far cry from saying, “ok, whatever suits you.” She needs to know what you feel like doing. Maybe if you really wanted to go she would say, “well you know what? I can take a bath when I get home.” Maybe she would really want to accomodate you. If you really don’t mind, and you tell her that you weren’t too keen to go, she can relax and know you are still going to have a nice night. If you weren’t looking forward to it at all and you tell her that you’re glad she doesn’t want to go, then maybe you will both figure you are trying to spend more time together than either of you even wants. You don’t have to have a strong opinion to have an opinion. What counts is that you aren’t just pretending that only her feelings on it matter because your feelings just aren’t that strong. Like Shagnasty said, if you give up your opinions on things, you will lose respect for your own opinions. Even not caring about something is an opinion. Don’t get confused between, “I didn’t care if I went out with her that night,” and “Whatever she wanted was fine with me.” The latter is just an expression. Everyone makes their own decisions about what they want.
msmith537, you must have been treated pretty badly in your life, or else you are just a jerk. Not all women run around on men. Sometimes “by myself” means exactly that - I need time alone. It doesn’t mean I’m going to have some other guy in my bed. Grow up a little. I think you have “nice” and “doormat” confused.
I get a kick out of all your responses, guy. This is one that I just kind of laughed at, so I hope you meant it as a joke.
Honestly, if my choices are to act like a doormat or never trust my girlfriend, I’ll take doormat. I like that she has her own social life and doesn’t need to see me every single night. I like that she can go to a work conference in another state for days at a time and I don’t worry or mind or care or suspect her of anything. I like that she has “girl’s nights out”. I like that she’ll go out with our friends by herself when I feel like sitting around doing nothing.
Between doormat or constantly suspecting my girlfriend’s motives? Doormat. Every time.
Well lets hope so. But it’s not unheard of for women (or anyone really) to lie about their reason for cancelling a date. And most normal people don’t cancel something at the last minute to “be alone” unless they are sick. It’s usually that a bigger and better deal came along.
Get bent. I’m trying to give this guys some advice here.
What’s the hell??? He described a single incident where she went out with friends instead of coming with him to some social event. That’s hardly “walking all over him”. And not making a big fuss about this doen’t qualify as “turning into a chump”. It’s called being level-headed and and being able to sort out what really matters and what doesn’t. It’s not like she was cheating on him with his best friend during the honeymoon before trying to poison him.
It seems to me you’re completely ignoring a key element. He might reallly, really want to watch a movie and not care that much whether or not she’ll come with him. So, he goes to the movie, she takes her bath and everybody’s happy.
Not accomodating him would be “I want to take a bath, so you’re not going to the movie theater”. Or the reserse : “I really want to go to the movie so you’re going to take your bath later”. That’s the position you seem to be advocating. And it’s not “not being a doormat”, it’s “expecting the other to be a doormat”.
Hi. Are you my brother? 'Cause you just described my family, including my OTHER brother. I hopped into this thread specifically to mention this very situation. Overcoming years and years of conditioning is truly an awesome task.
And I’ve stopped it, too. Sort of.
Very slight hijack: Zebra, have you ever read the book “The Normal One”? It’s very good if you have or had an abusive or disabled sibling. Most of the way through it, I didn’t know whether to laugh, cry, or throw up. She got it very right.
I ended a relationship when I was in my early 20s for this very reason. One day, I was on one side of the road, and he was on the other with all his friends and brothers. With the most pathetic, unappealing, annoying whine I said “Honey - come and carry me accross the road.” I was pretty well kidding, but the scary part was that he headed over to carry me. I realized at that moment that our relationship was doomed. Absolute power corrupts absolutely - any man that’s willing to humiliate himself in front of his friends because I’m being a dumb ass, is not the guy for me.
Subsequently, I’ve only dated men that won’t do anything I ask.
With all due respect, msmith, why should he give a shit what you think he should care about? I’m guessing you’re not invited over for a threesome, so your role in this relationship is pure Peanut-gallery; as such, for you to get so worked up over him not getting as worked up as you is a little odd.
I understood the post you were responding to as refering to a situation where the person doesn’t care that much whether they would go together or not. So, he’s not annoyed if his gf choose to stay home.
It’s hard to judge. I’d say no, you wouldn’t be a doormat in this scenario, unless it becomes a pattern. Occasionally asking your SO for understanding when you need to change plans isn’t, IMO, taking advantage, and for you to grant that understanding is not being a doormat. Unfortunately, it could simply be that you’re way more into her than she is into you, but that’s a whole other topic.