You would HATE it here in Brazil! Your expected to (are you sitting down) KISS people of the opposite Sex * that you only JUST MET . I’m a male, and at the bar its not unusual when some one you know (of the same Sex) comes in and gives you a good sturdy embrace, and then stands there while his wife awaits her peck on the cheek. And the stools are embedded in to the floor so you cant move them less then one fore arms length away from the next !* If you don’t know somebody when you sit down for a brew or to have a quick lunch, you will by the time you leave, because your arms are touching * the whole time *. Oh and if you try to keep you distance, everyone will think your a freak, and have nothing to do with you! This goes for work and all social engagements as well. It took me years to get over the personal space issue, now if I visit the states again it is hard for me to get over how profoundly COLD we Americans seem.
Touching doesn’t bother me so long as it’s not prolonged. Now if someone leaves their hand on me for more than 15 seconds or so I’m gonna take issue with it.
So yeah I don’t mind being touched just don’t do it for very long.
Has anyone hear ever worked retail or some other job where you are in direct contact with the public? The worst offenders when it comes to touchy-feely types are customers-- most of them complete strangers– who would come into the office supply store where I once worked, and would gently (sometimes not quite so gently) grab my arm or tap on my shoulder to get my attention. I am easily startled by things such as this, on top of the fact that I find this to be unforgivably RUDE, so I would jump or gasp whenever somebody did this. Some of them would apologize and realize their breach of etiquette, while others would make a joke about it (“you should lay off the coffee” :rolleyes: ).
Then there were the ones who would pat me on the back in mid-conversation or upon conclusion of the transaction, often times being semi-elderly men (Christ almighty! Back off!). Some of them would actually be surprised or offended that I would flinch away from them when they did this. While it may be appropriate to tell co-workers or people with whom you have at least marginal acquaintance to not touch you, it’s harder to tell this to customers since, as a retail employee, you never know when one of them will go up to the manager and accuse you of treating them rudely.
It doesn’t matter. I had a boss (we’re both female) who I talked to about my not wanting to be touched (she’d reached to tap my shoulder, I ducked reflexively, and then had a polite conversation with her about it). She went out of her way to touch me after that, making comments, and generally harassing me. So I addressed it again, documented, and eventually had to go to HR. They took it seriously, dealt with the issue, and it stopped.
Whether the contact is intimate or not, if someone is touching you and you are uncomfortable with it, they need to stop. If they don’t stop after you have told them you are uncomfortable with it, then it is harassment and HR needs to be involved.
This is one of the things I like most about Brazil. I walk into a fellow’s house and his wife and two daughters come up and give me kisses on each cheek . It took me awhile to get over my American resistence to this, but this is one aspect of Brazilian culture I wish would catch on in the States.
Thanks, Sionach. That clarification is good to have.
A couple of other folks brought up the cultural differences about personal space. In general, those from northern European background think some other groups are “pushy.” Some southern Europeans think British people are “cold.” It’s one thing to try to adapt to local customs, but here in the U.S. we have so many different backgrounds, and are quite mobile, so it’s difficult to identify the prevailing standard, if there is one. Some people are very good about noticing that someone else is constantly backing away (or moving forward) and try to adjust to it; others are just oblivious.
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This comes up in verbal conversation, too. Deborah Tannen’s books are good at explaining the different conversational styles that lead to misunderstandings – the presence or absence of overlapping, the appropriate amount of time to wait before answering, and so on. </hijack>
belladonna, when I was pregnant last year, I just gave everyone who looked like they wanted to touch me a slightly menacing look. I think I had two people who wanted to touch me, and they asked for permission first. (They were both Dopers, so maybe it was the Pit threads.)
It doesn’t matter what kind of touching; if I don’t want a fellow employee to touch me, the touching needs to stop, and in fact, WILL stop. Whether I have to go to HR depends on whether the toucher has a single clue or not.
To answer MLS, my personal definition of “initimate” includes anything other than a handshake. Laying a hand on my shoulder or arm, depending on how it’s done, can easily be “intimate”. Touching my little finger can be intimate. In fact, if you’re touching me and I don’t want you to touch me, this is intimate by my definition, no matter what the location of the touch is on my body.
The point is, though, I get to decide whether I want to be touched or not. As an employee, I have a right to be not touched, at all, ever, with the possible exception of a handshake when meeting someone new.
Ordinarily I’m disgusted with overly-active HR departments and their rules. In this case, however, I thank God they’re there for me.
Tapping someone on the shoulder to get their attention is a breach of etiquete?
Wow. News to me.
Assuming their hearing is blocked and their attention is else-where (wearing head-phones, lot of back-ground noise, walkman going, stocking high shelves, etc) how do you propose I *DO get someone’s attention, if I’m not alowed to tap them on the shoulder? Dance around? Do a crab-walk under their nose into their field of vision? Levetate myself above them?
I can understand not grabbing someone’s arm - that is rude, but getting offended at a finger tap seems a bit over the top.
I have before related the tale of the coworker who liked to tease me. He flicked the back of my ear, one day, when I was particualrly depressed - without looking behind me to see who it was, I punched him in the shoulder. Pure reflex - I hate being touched without warning (with a very few exceptions - my good friends can hug me from behind or put hands on my shoulders and I’ll register who it is almost immediately)
People should be very respectful of the personal space of others until they get to know them well enough to know what they’re comfortable with. I think I would have a problem in Brazil, yes.
Same here (I’m portuguese ;)) and not just sitting down either (?). But I actually hate kissing random strangers on the cheek. Even with aquaintances I will avoid it, looking rude some times. I think it is a stupid habit. if I walk into a room full of women it takes five minutes to kiss them all (hehe). And you’re supposed to do that everyday to the people you see all the damn time. Another annoying thing is you never know who gives one kiss or two kisses. You can make an “educated guess” but it’s really annoying. I don’t care much for handshakes either but that doesn’t bother me. But if I had a cent everytime I see men leave the John without washing their hands I’d be rich. I wish a simple hello would suffice. Save the kisses for those you really care about. Unless you’re female and extremely atractive I have no desire to kiss you and I hope you feel the same way. /end rant
Ya know, I think I’m the opposite of those people.
I’ve had more than a few pregnant friends or acquiaintances over the years, and they’re always inviting me to rub their bellies. And I’m always saying stuff like “What? You mean, like… with my hand?” They’re usually quite insistant, so I end up doing a 1/2second long glancing rub and then retreating as fast as I can. It makes me extremely uncomfortable.
I was over at a friends where we were cleaning up after his garage collapsed. One of the other helpers wanted to have a bonfire with some of the scrap wood. It was october and had been a very dry summer, so the homeowner said if the guy just had to burn something he could put the scrapwood in this little hibachi-style grill. Soon the Burninator’s scrap pile overflowed the hibachi and he lit it on fire and kept adding and adding more wood. When the diameter of the bonfire reached 3 feet, I decided to go inside and get some water to douse the perimeter at the very least.
As I started dousing some of the flame, the Burninator tried to grab me from behind and get the water away from me. Reflexively I rammed him in the kidneys with my elbow as hard as I could – hard enough that he went down (my boyfriend at the time, a black belt in karate, said I showed excellent form), while at the same time shouting “god, [name] you are such an A**HOLE!” I’m 5’2" and at the time weighed all of 115 pounds … he was 6’2" and I decked him, much to the amusement of all assembled.
Moral of the story: Don’t go grabbing people! You might get what’s coming to you…
My coworker and good friend Jane does not like to be touched except by people she knows well and trusts even more. In situations where I would normally reach out and touch (she’s upset and crying, for instance), I always ask if I can hug her or whatever.
Jane’s aversion to touchy-feely is well known in our workplace and, to my growing annoyance, is a subject for humor. For instance, if we are involved in a required Wellness Committee activity that has us sitting on laps or holding hands, someone will undoubtedly announce loudly, “Be sure not to touch Jane (haw haw)” or even worse “C’mon everyone, lets get Jane to participate!” Great laughter ensues. It pisses me off–Jane is who she is and her wishes should be acknowledged without fanfare or hilarity. After all, would someone say to Sue (a polio survivor whose mobility is impaired), “C’mon, Sue, you can run if you really want to, haw haw, let’s all make Sue feel uncomfortable!” Sue and Jane each have spheres of physical comfort and should not be made to feel the butt of jokes because of them.
Don’t know if I have clearly articulated how I feel about this, but it has bothered me for a while and I figured I could unload about it here.
There was a guy in college that I only barely knew who, for some reason, felt it was entirely okay for him to walk up and ruffle my hair while I was sitting in the cafeteria having lunch. Now I’m little, but I’m not eight freakin’ years old. After he had done it twice, I realized he wasn’t about to stop, so I started picking up my fork every time I saw him approaching, and giving him the evil eye while clenching my weapon in a white-knuckled fist. What do you know, he stopped.
I also get picked up occasionally and hauled around. It’s worst in groups of people, because one person does it and then everyone has to, just to prove they can. Dammit, I’m a grown-up! Stop treating me like your six-year old niece!
I don’t like being touched. At all. My parents ask for freakin’ permission before touching me (usually).
In eighth grade, my Spanish teacher Did Not Get It. I’ll admit, there was a culture thing, kind of. He was Puerto Rican (though pretty much raised in Philly!), fine. I made it very clear when he tried to hug me on the first day of school that I would really rather him not do that.
He thought it was funny as hell to, say, rest a hand on my shoulder or something in class. I tense up instantly, flinch away, and once fell out of my chair doing so. He laughed. I spoke to him after class - explained to him that it’s not him, I’m like that with everything. I’m truly phobic of being touched by people who I’m not really close with (Currently, there are four people who I let touch me - parents, my sister, and my boyfriend). This teacher just thought it was funny as hell to see that reaction.
Grrr. Didn’t go over so well when I finally got fed up and cursed him out in the middle of class. People just don’t get it. It’s not that I don’t like you, it’s not me being PMS-ey. I don’t like touch. If you know this, you sure as hell better not touch me.
I agree that this is no reason to joke. There are people in the world who have really good reasons for not wanting to be touched by others–child abuse survivors, rape survivors. If the person who is anti-touch is a victim of either of those things, he/she may not want to talk about it (esp. with their entire office), but may instead simply say “I don’t like to be touched.” Laughing at them and making fun is certainly not going to help. Respect their wishes and move on.
. It took me awhile to get over my American resistence to this, but this is one aspect of Brazilian culture I wish would catch on in the States.
