Why did you vote the way you did?

Great Debates
21

My priorities are:

  1. My absolute freedom. I believe that America is supposed to be about pure liberty. Absolute freedom of speech, absolute right to bear arms, absolute right to keep the government out of my personal life. Seat belts, helmets, drug use (though I don’t), what time I’m “allowed” to buy beer at the store, what I read, say, etc. Are all my business, not yours, not Uncle Sams

  2. My money. That rant by Tyger should be added into the Bill of Rights. All the bullshit my tax dollars pay for. All the things I could do with that money. Yeah, I know one of you Poindexters are going to start squaking about how my tax dollars pay for te police,
    firemen, schools, blah blah blah.
    But those are local tax issues. And I don’t care what they pay in taxes in Europe or Aisa or the Island of Bumblef*ck, I don’t live there, I live here, and I say the rate of federal taxes is high enough to almost justify revolution.

So, who did I WANT to vote for? I wanted to vote for Harry Brown so bad it almost drove me nuts.
But I knew, I knew he wasn’t going to come close to winning.
I also knew that the election between Gore & Bush was going to be razor close.
And I hate Gore. If you knew how much I hate him you would drop to your knees and pray for my soul! That man is so smug, so “Na na, na na. I’m better than you”. I disagree with most of his stances, and I hate him personally.

Then theres Bush. He’s an idiot. A spoiled rich kid. He’s not as pro gun as people make him out to be. Did I mention he’s an idiot?
But I knew that it was going to be between Bush & Gore no matter what. NO MATTER WHAT!
And it was going to be close.
So, while I wanted Harry Brown to be President, I was aware that my only real choice this time was to choose what I saw as the lesser of 2 evils.
I held my nose and voted for Bush. True, he’s no libertarian. But he’s not Gore. Thank God he’s not Gore.
That’s why I voted for Bush. It was between getting a kick in the ass or a kick in the nuts.
Some choice.

22

Why I voted for Vice President Al Gore:

I think our economy suffered tremendously during the Reagan/Bush years. I think Reagan’s “trickle down economics” was not only stupid, but it clearly didn’t work and the nation suffered greatly for it. I also happen to believe that Reagan and Bush were extremely corrupt - far worse than Nixon ever was. I firmly believe (and cannot be dissuaded, so don’t try) that they were in collusion with those who took and held hostages in Iran in order to sway public opinion and secure the offices of President and Vice President. (Anyone interested in reading an account of events that led up to that atrocity should read Ken Follett’s On Wings of Eagles. It is fascinating and gripping reading. I highly recommend it.)

I also firmly believe that the Sr. Bush was responsible up to his eyeballs for the Iran/Contra scandal and I resent that he walked away scott free for his involvement while he allowed underlings to shoulder the entire blame for illegal activities that he either ordered or turned a blind eye to. (I heard him with my own ears admit to having full knowledge of the illegal sale of arms to Iran against the direct orders of Congress. But was he ever prosecuted??? But Mr. Clinton gets impeached for lying about a blow job - sheesh!)

And as irrational as it is, my loathing of the Sr. Mr. Bush is so deep-seeded that I found it impossible not to allow those feelings to “trickle down” to the son. And equally irrational is the sick feeling I have that the Jr. Mr. Bush will rely heavily on the guidance and advice of his corrupt and evil father. Tough accusations, I know, but you want to know how I feel and why, and I’m telling it like it is.

Add to my grave concerns that the apple hasn’t fallen from the tree, that I find Governor Bush to be smug, condescending and just plain creepy, not to mention ignorant on the basic political issues and concerns that he’ll be required to be knowledgeable about if he enters office. I’m sorry, but I want a President who knows (and cares) who the other world leaders are. And I’m not satisfied with the excuse that he’ll have advisors to whisper in his ear during important negotiations.

HOWEVER, I still feel that it’s important to vote for elected officials, especially the President of the United States, based on what they say they’ll do regarding the issues that are important to me and not entirely on “feelings”. So to be sure that I didn’t allow irrational motivations alone to guide my decision-making, I went to http://www.selectsmart.com/PRESIDENT and took the “test” they set up on their site. It covers the following issues: abortion, affirmative action, campaign finance reform, crime legislation, defense spending, drug policy, gay rights, education (school choice), the environment, evolution vs creationism in schools, foreign policy, gun control, health care, “moral issues” taught in schools, social security, taxes and trade issues. The site is still up and working for anyone who wants to test themselves and see if the candidate they voted for really does share their ideologies on these issues.

Based on what I indicated my feelings were on those issues, Vice President Gore led the pack, matching my concerns on 75% of the issues. Here’s how they all stacked up…

75 Albert Gore Jr.
73 David McReynolds
59 Ralph Nader
50 John Hagelin
39 George W. Bush
33 Howard Phillips
31 Harry Browne
28 Patrick J. (Pat) Buchanan
19 Alan Keyes

And there you have it - why I voted for Al Gore.

23

Thanks.

My results don’t surprise me. If I was to vote purely on issues, without regard to the likelihood of a candidate winning, I wouldn’t have voted for Al:

86 David McReynolds
80 Ralph Nader
71 Albert Gore Jr.
60 John Hagelin
30 Harry Browne
20 George W. Bush
20 Howard Phillips
15 Patrick J. (Pat) Buchanan
9 Alan Keyes

But what I gotta know is: What the fuck is Alan Keyes for???

stoid

24

Apparantly I’m a socialist!

(I’m not, really, but I understand why that vote thing thinks I am.)

stoid

25

I dunno. Maybe you could post why you voted the way you did instead of asking everyone else to go first. That’d be the polite thing to do for someone initiating a conversation.

Marc

26

Why I voted for Bush:

No, I’m not a big fan of his. I won’t attend any pro-Bush rallies, I won’t attend any fund-raisers, I won’t put up any “Bush/Cheney” signs or bumper stickers…

What it came down to, for me, was how I percieved he would run things. To keep things short, he may not be the brightest penny in the stack, but he seems to know this. He surrounds himself with plenty of advisors, and he takes their damn advice. That’s how he managed to survive so well.

If he were in office, I imagined that he would appoint talented, intelligent, and experienced people to be part of his cabinet. I imagined that he’d listen to these people closely.

Now, the twist that’s put on this quality of Bush is “he’s a puppet president”. Call it what you want, but it’s long been said that a smart man knows what he doesn’t know.

Conversely, I saw Gore as someone who’d try to handle everything himself. This was shown during the debates… not the actual debates themselves, but there were several reports of his advisors telling him to do something, and he’d ignore them.

I imagined a scenario where a crisis breaks out, and he tries to handle it himself. Now, he’s no dummy, I freely and openly admit that, but he can’t do everything. Nobody can. He’ll come across something that he can’t handle, and because of his gung-ho nature, he’d screw things up.

Disagree with this reasoning as you will. I believe that the aftermath of Nov. 7th only solidifies my view.

27

I voted for Al Gore primarily for two reasons and a lot of smaller ones:

First, the single-candidate system and the illegitimacy of any other parties but the big two means that the “little guys” unfortunately have no hope of putting their voice in anything. I’m all for a proportional representation system for Congress. It wouldn’t solve the problem of ‘little guy’ Presidents, but that’s not so bad, the Pres is supposed to support the widest range of people. So that limited my vote to just the primary two.

Second, the “big issue” for me is that of gay rights. I strongly disapprove of Bush’s previous statements and stance on it (quote to gay Texas legislature Dem: “When I say those things about gay people, I want you to know, I don’t mean you”), and I strongly disapprove of his campaign waffling over it. I dislike him being against it, but it’s even worse how he might actually fool some people into thinking he’s gay-friendly. I doubt any Republican candidate is ever going to really be any different about this in the near future, as the so-called “Religious Right” is a strong segment of the party…and this is why I consider the Log Cabin Republicans to be something like Jewish Nazis (an overexaggeration for effect). So combined with the first up there, that more or less set my vote for Gore right away.

However, this is just a subset of the whole “family values” thing in general. I don’t agree in the least with the conservative viewpoint of legislating their flavor of morality and I consider attempts to do so as direct attacks on -me- (since I very rarely agree with the conservatives on what’s “moral”)

I’m also against any “across the board” tax cuts, particularly on our weighted system, while we have this monstrous debt to pay down (thanks Reagan). I think Bush’s insistence on it reeks of attempt at personal gain and an outright appeal to the masses with little regard for the consequences. I’m violently against the idea of funding private, aka religious, schools (vouchers &tc) and I strongly support environmental protection. There are plenty of other odds and ends, which I’m about to cover briefly, but the real problem is that no one candidate matches my viewpoints, because:

I’m pro-choice, but against gun control and drug control (both are futile)
I’m pro-minority, but against affirmative action & hate crime (I think the concepts are good, but it’s a poor way to go about it)
I’m pro-military, but against missile defense (it’s economically, technologically and politically stupid)
I’m pro-UN, but against messing in what isn’t our business, but against isolationism.

So given all this, Gore was the best compromise for me. :meekly takes off newbie hat:

28

I was torn.
I disagreed with Bush on school vouchers and the ‘surplus’.
I disagreed with Gore on Hollywood violenceand did not like the way he handled himself during the debates.

I could live with either of them on most everything else. I like Gore better on the enviroment.

Basically,(and I know this is bad) I’m a Democrat and need a compelling reason to vote Republican. I didn’t have one.

29

I voted for Nader because he is not beholden to special interests and didn’t take any “soft money”, which is why he didn’t win.
Also, I am against the death penalty too.

30

Stoid:

I suspect that if we ever met in person there’d be a tremendous explosion, like when matter and anti-matter meet ;):
74 Alan Keyes
71 Harry Browne
67 George W. Bush
57 Howard Phillips
55 Patrick J. (Pat) Buchanan
46 John Hagelin
25 David McReynolds
22 Ralph Nader
9 Albert Gore Jr.

I don’t entirely agree with this, since Keyes is extremly pro-life, and I put down that I don’t care. He’s also fairly isolationist and anti-free trade and I wanted slightly interventionist and pro free trade, and he’s pro-school prayer and anti-evolution and I’m not, so I’m not sure how they came up with Keyes ahead of Browne or Bush.

Fenris

31

I’m not gonna say who I voted for: I wanna see if Stoidela and [bFreedom2** can guess correctly. :wink:

32

At voting time I assumed the republicans were going to control both houses of congress. Having a republican president was just too much, so instead of not voting (which I almost did because neither candidate appealed to me) I voted for Gore.

It’s my feeling that many civilians in Nicaragua, El Salvador, Panama, Guatemala, Iraq as well as other countries lost their lives because of the machinations of the Reagan and Bush administrations. Those things happened a while ago, and a lot of it during the cold war (not that the cold war’s any excuse), but I think some of those elements are still behind the scenes and I’m not convinced we’ve seen the end of the likes of the NSC under Poindexter & North. It’s my perception that republicans are generally anti-immigration (the far right expression of this is that immigrants/people of color/ethnicity are stealing jobs and causing them anguish) and want to impose Christian morals on the country as a whole. I also find their knee-jerk reaction to the words “tax cut” pretty amusing given how badly they were burned by poppa Bush.

33

According to the presidential selector:

83 Harry Browne
73 George W. Bush
67 John Hagelin
65 Howard Phillips
62 Patrick J. (Pat) Buchanan
60 Alan Keyes
40 David McReynolds
30 Albert Gore Jr.
28 Ralph Nader

Shows what they know, I ended up voting for Nader, for reasons explained below.

Now, I did vote for Browne last time, and preferred Bush over Gore on many policy issues. For example:

Social Security: The current system is a mess and needs substantial reform. While I don’t think Bush’s proposal is the way to go, I do think that any substantive reform, even if unsuccesful, will remove the stigma attached to even proposing changes to Social Security. This will open the door to even more proposals, and hopefully, a long term solution. Since Gore has no real proposal for changing the system at all, advantage Bush.

Environment: I think that the enviromentalist claim that human beings are primarily responsible for observed climate change are suspect at best. Spending billions to reverse these changes, which are likely, IMHO, natural in origin, is quixotic in the extreme. I am appalled by the hysteria fomented by the more extreme environmental and anti-chemical groups and want to ensure that their influence on the EPA and FDA are minimized. Advantage Bush.

Affirmative Action: I think that the Democratic party has done much to preserve the racial divides in this country by supporting, tacitly as well as explicitly, such demagogues as Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and the like. While I find racist Republicans just as abhorrent, I believe that working toward a government that is colorblind in dealing with citizens is the correct policy. Advantage Bush.

Abortion: I am pro-choice by inclination, although not terribly strongly. I in general support parental notification, with exceptions for particularly bad family situations. I am morally opposed to abortion as a primary method of birth control, but my oppostion does not translate into a desire for public policy changes. Advantage Gore, but I tend to vote on economic issues as opposed to social one, so its a small advantage.

So I should have voted for Bush right? Sure, except I live in Maryland, land of the Democrats. So a Bush vote is wasted. Browne and the Libertarians are going nowhere, so why bother?

My choice came down to my main political pet peeve, the two party system. Lack of viable alternative parties, liberal, conservative and otherwise, stifles debate and forces a race to the middle. Since Nader had a shot at being a viable thirdy party candidate, I decided to vote for him, not because I believe in him, his policies or his party, I don’t, but because I believe in the concept of strong alternative parties.

Of course Nader tanked, so I ended up wasting my vote anyway.

Whew, did anybody actually read that? I didn’t, and I wrote it.

gEEk

34

On the one hand, none of your business.

On the other …

I voted for Bush because I agree with most of what he talked about in his campaign. I’m a little concerned about his relative silence on the environment, but I am thinking there will be sufficient checks in place to keep him from swinging too far in an environmentally unfriendly way.

Solidifying my support of Bush was my absolute disagreement with Gore on the tax issues, and the general philosophy of Gore’s campaign. Bush has a record of bringing people together; Gore’s campaign unabashedly trumpets how it desires to treat people differently.

Can anyone explain to me why, in a time of prosperity, if you’re going to be cutting taxes, why you wouldn’t cut them for everyone? Particularly for the people paying the most in taxes? Gore not only disagrees with it, he harped on it as though it was the worst thing Bush ever said (“the richest 1 percent,” ad nauseum).

Gore’s “targeted tax cuts” appear to me to be targeted to people who would typically support Democrats. Nothing wrong with that, I suppose, but why would I support it? I’m nowhere close to being rich, and I would have received no tax cut at all under his plan.

Gore seems too willing to pit rich against poor, black against white. We’re all Americans. Bush seems to recognize that better, and I see him as striking more of a “we’re all in this together” tenor. His record in Texas indicates that will be the case. Gore’s record, on the other hand, is all about division.

I would have voted for McCain. I see him as conservative but also more pragmatic, common sense and stick-to-his-guns, polls be damned. I am in awe of what he endured for his country as a POW in Vietnam; his refusal to accept an early release because his dad was a big-wig in the Navy, until all of his fellow soldiers were released, too; and just in general his evolution as a man and as a politician over the course of his life. (The long “Vanity Fair” article on him this fall was fascinating.)

For those of you who think you have me pigeon-holed by my posts in this forum, you might be interested to know:

  • I voted for Clinton. Twice. (That I regret it now notwithstanding.)

  • I regularly vote for candidates of all parties. In November, for example, I voted for a couple of Democrats, and one local Green Party candidate.

I see what’s going on in Florida not as a Republican-vs.-Democrat issue (though that’s the way it’s turning out); I see it as a fair-vs.-unfair issue. Gore’s trying to subvert the rightful outcome of the election. Period.

We’re waiting, Stoidela …

35

Since this election had no viable third party candidate with any chance to win, I’ll only comment on Bush and Gore, except to say that I voted generally Democrat for Congressional and state offices and generally anti-incumbent for local.

Aside from domestic issues, where I disagree less vehemently with Gore than with Bush, and foreign policy, where I endorse strong US activism, I only had one compelling reason to vote for Gore, and I had two compelling reasons to vote against Bush. Both candidates have lesser good/bad points, and I’ll offer my opinions on a few of those.

For Gore:[ul][li]Competence: As many pundits have made a point of, Gore has spent most of his adulthood preparing and campaigning to become President. On any given issue, he’s likely to have spent a great deal more time gathering information and considering his position than any of his opponents have. He not only knows and understands most of the factors in any issue, he can clearly state this understanding in order to explain his position (something he should have done much more of during his campaign). In addition, Gore seems to understand the value of compromise (and has had eight years to work under the tutelage of the modern genius of compromise). Thus, he has the canny ability to subdue his own rhetoric when presented with a highly partisan Congress; this makes him much more capable of being a “uniter” than his opponent.[]Adaptability: Not as compelling as the previous point, but important. Gore (to his detriment in terms of the appearance of “waffling”) is known to adjust his stance on issues in light of new information. This is vital in the dynamic political environment that is Washington, and in foreign policy considerations.[]Compassion: I want my President to represent the least of his constituents as well as he represents the most powerful of them, and to fight harder for those less able to fight for themselves. There is a clear difference in this regard between the Vice President and Gov. Bush, and I remain in awe of the willful blindness of those who cannot see that.[/ul][/li]Against Gore:[ul][li]Exaggeration/misrepresentation of his own record: Gore has an unfortunate tendency to over state his own accomplishments. This tendency has been so heavily and successfully used against him by his opponents that he now is given none of the “slack” in his statements that other politicians are routinely given, and must guard against slips and factual errors, or he is instantly crucified for them in the press.[]Pandering: Gore is too willing to gear every speech and adjust every statement to appeal to his target audience; he is so afraid of alienating even one voter that he undercuts his strongest characteristic. It’s difficult to explain your well-thought-out position on an issue if you’re trying to hide the fact that it’s contrary to those of the audience you’re trying to sway. Instead of selling his p.o.v. to the voters, he tries to disguise it to look like the popular p.o.v.[]Over-idealized support of Labor: Gore’s compassion and lack of any real experience at managing a non-professional workforce lead him to support some silly and counterproductive measures. His support for collective bargaining, for instance, doesn’t end with union negotiations; he thinks it should be applied to employer-employee relations as well.[/ul][/li]Against Bush:[ul][li]Incompetence: This goes much further than intelligence and ability. As a matter of fact, I have no doubts as to Bush’s native intelligence whatsoever. The concern I have with Bush as Chief Executive is that the man doesn’t seem to want to bother with the details of any issue, but would rather stick to general policy statements based on an ideological platform, and let his advisors make those fit the situation. Obviously, this approach can only work if the executive is knowledgable enough about the issues involved that he retains some oversight and accountability for the policies of his administration. Gov. Bush’s incurious approach to the issues themselves makes such “informed delegation” unlikely; it is more likely that his inclinations toward ignorance will remain unchanged as President.Character: This is the most successful “spin” effort in recent political history. Through constant attacks and insinuations, the Bush campaign has managed to enlist the largely unconscious powers of the media in the perpetration of the primary “Big Lie” of this election year, that “Gore can’t be trusted.” Although no one has presented any credible evidence in any way that Gore is less honest than any other major political figure, the sheer mass of these allegations has shielded Bush from any critical examination (outside of Texas - see Molly Ivins) of his own record. So we have a man who describes his unsavory acts while in his twenties and thirties as “youthful indiscretions”, and who can’t contain a gleeful smirk when taking credit for the death sentences passed by Texas jurisprudence; this man is somehow held in higher esteem by the general public for “character” than a man who’s spent his entire adult life in public service. Fuck that.[/ul][/li]For Bush:[ul][li]Superficial Likeability: Not a characteristic which should be high on the list for “presidential material”, and not in any way an indicator of high moral rectitude (see “Character:” above).[/ul][/li]
I found the choice between these two to be extraordinarily easy. I am not in love with Al Gore. He is not even close to my ideal candidate. He does, however, loom large in comparison with his opponent.

36

I originally wanted to vote for Bradley. Now here’s the problem I had this election. I didn’t like the proposals of either party but I liked the repubs policy far less than the dem one. Here’s the key issues that decided it for me.

The Partial Privatation Plan - This plan to me is reckless, with the only clear beneficiaries being the trading houses and banks.

The Big Tax Cut - I would probably benefit under this plan. However, this seemed to me to be a rebirth of Trickle Down Economics. I.e., giving the rich a tax cut to spur investment, the problem is it didn’t work last time, no reason it should this time.

Vouchers I don’t like voucher plans. It’s a macro solution to a micro problem. I think it would be far more advantageous to reinvest in our school infastruture. I.e., building more schools, finding more teachers and reducing class size.

Now for Balance

The following is my problem with the Gore/Democrat ticket:

A reliance on a Veep in a election in which there would be significant anti-clinton backlash. The farce of a primary with Bradley.

Pandering, pandering and did I say pandering.

The race baiting in the last weeks of the campaign by the DNC with the NAACPs help.

Targeted Tax Cuts - Paying down the debt was easily the best use of the surplus.

37

Well, I cast a vote for Al, not primarily because I think he is much of a candidate, but because I strongly oppose much of what Bush and the Republicans stand for and/or practice. Third party candidates I do not consider in close elections.

Abortion: Yes, I realize that the Reps can’t just declare Roe V Wade dead and put their pro-life platform in place. Nevertheless, a Justice or two is all it takes to start applying narrower and narrower interpretations when cases do come up for review. Add to that that the President appoints key officials that oversee how federal health dollars are dispersed and the prospects for exercise of reproductive rights can easily be reduced for the poor.

Religious Right: I am vehemently opposed to just about every RR policy I can think of, from media censorship to obscenity legislation for the internet, from reduced sex education to allowing prayer in schools, from blue laws to teaching (gaak!) Creationism. Yes, I am aware that the Religious Right is not the same thing as the Republican Party. However, so long as the Reps court their vote, so long as I have to even wonder whether I should worry about any of these issues gaining hold, I cannot in good conscience vote for a Republican unless he were to specifically disavow such policies. Bush, unfortunately, did not do so, and indicated more than once that he supported Creationism being taught alongside evolution.

Gay Rights: I am not gay. Nobody I know is gay (openly anyway). I am in the military. Be that as it may, I can recognize what is essentially a matter of simple fairness. Neither side has a stellar record in this area, but the Democrats’ record is nevertheless far superior to that of the Republicans’.

The Death Penalty: No need to say more.
Add to the above list a dislike of some specific things Bush talked about, Social Security privatization, across-the-board tax cuts, and school vouchers, and that’s a fairly decent list of why I voted against Bush. Al and the Dems have their problems as well, but I perceived them to be less problematic than those of their opponents.

Oh, and Bush is, any way you slice it, someone who hasn’t paid his dues compared to Al, who has a long stretch of public service. Bush is where he is due to his family and his money.

38

Yes, but he sure took federal money when they thrust it out to him, and as far as I’m concerned that’s the bigger evil. Soft money is a voluntary contribution and quite frankly it seems the only way that people can have a voice anymore. Meanwhile, federal election money…well, calling that little check box “voluntary” is a slight stretch, and even if you do check it, no way that you know that dollar is going to your candidate…hence no free choice in the matter.

39

91 David McReynolds
87 Ralph Nader
82 Albert Gore Jr.
55 John Hagelin
19 Harry Browne
15 Howard Phillips
13 George W. Bush
13 Patrick J. (Pat) Buchanan
1 Alan Keyes

And on that note, Milossarian,

Sure, thing. The deal is this: In this “time of prosperity”, the prosperity has been distributed very unequally. Those at the top have gotten way more prosperous whereas those at the bottom have only started to gain ground in the last few years and had lost ground through much of the 80’s and first half of the 90’s. As a result, inequality has gotten much more extreme in this country…And, it was already higher than all, or nearly all, of the Western democracies to start with.

Do I begrudge the rich their money? No. But, do I want to give them even more with the current state of things? No way. (And, by the way, although I am not up there in the top 1%, I am at least in the top 20%…And, in my view, high enough that I don’t need a tax cut. I was quite happy to see that all of Gore’s tax breaks had phased out by my income (except for the long-term care one, which I don’t think I would be taking advantage of anyway.)

40

Why you commie pinko longhaired potsmoking draftdodging godless fag, you!

Come on over and sit next to me :wink:

Anyone know what income cutoff puts a person in the top 1%? My memory may be really faulty, but I seem to recall that it was some absurdly small number, like $100K a year, which doesn’t seem possible…

stoid