Well, with an invitation like that, how can I resist!?! 
Nope…According to the study of Bush’s tax plan I from Citizens for Tax Justice, it is >$319,000 per year (and the average in that group is $915,000 per year). In fact, even the cutoff for the top 5% is above $100K (it’s $130K).
You’re kidding, right?
jshore: Do you know what’s happened to tax revenue every time taxes have been cut in recent history? It goes up.
To what or who do you attribute the economic prosperity, growth of our economy, lower unemployment, etc. of the last decade or so? The Clinton-Gore Administration? The Republican-controlled Congress?
NGGGGGGGGGTTTTT!
I’m sorry; the correct answer is entrepreneurship?
Do you know who grows the economy? Who makes new industries, develops new technologies and creates jobs?
Millionaires and billionaires. And, on a smaller scale, small business owners and founders who don’t need a lot of bureaucracy and regulation getting in their way.
Democrats are the party of wealth redistribution, which has never proven effective anywhere it’s been done in the history of the planet.
Ahh, yes…we return to the implication that life is a zero-sum game. Surely anyone who succeeds must do so at the cost of another!!! As everyone chooses to be so pedantic about proof of statements, I would certainly enjoy seeing some valid evidence that any unit of gain by X comes at a unit of loss to Y!! Certainly, I believe that prosperity is possible for all, and certainly the highest propserity has been when the government has left people alone to achieve. If the rich achieve more, then by god they deserve more; if a man creates a great invention that changes the course of the world then he deserves to be rich, for this will encourage others to do the same and EVERYONE’s life will be the better for it!
Of course, it doesn’t seem that socialism welcomes prosperity. Instead of encouraging people to reach up and be more prosperous and happy, socialism instead wishes to drag everyone down to the same equal level of despair and misery. Make the rich feel guilty and break their spirits, and once you’ve broken a man’s spirit you can do what you will with him…taking his money is no challenge at all. THAT’s the real evil of socialism…the killing of the human spirit, and that’s why I fight so vociferously against it.
Rather masochistic, wouldn’t you say? But then again, to be a rich socialist would imply a great deal of self-loathing, wouldn’t it? If you wish to get rid of all the money in the world, be my guest to give it whereever you like…give it to the government to waste. But don’t expect me to give up MY money quite so easily. Quite frankly, I believe that you have no right to the product of my life nor of any other person unwilling to give it up.
Of course, I don’t understand why you’re making big bucks in the first place…why not just take a job at McDonalds and be amongst your “poor and disenfranchised souls” and practice what you preach?
I certainly begrudge no man a living and the chance to succeed to the best of his ability and hard work, but for any person who has reached the top based on their hard work to wish to drag others down…well, that’s just damn hypocritical to me.
Fyi:
93 Harry Browne
63 George W. Bush
59 Alan Keyes
58 John Hagelin
53 Howard Phillips
48 Patrick J. (Pat) Buchanan
41 David McReynolds
34 Ralph Nader
25 Albert Gore Jr.
friend stoidela,
an interesting topic, with great replies, thanks.
i am a registered as an independent, and i voted for mr. gore. i disagree with mr. bush on a few issues.
abortion: as a man, i don’t think my opinion should set policy. let the ladies decide this one.
school prayer: teach your children to worship the god of your choice in the privacy of your own home or church. do not attempt to teach my children about your god, and i will do the same.
school vouchers: similar to school prayer. if you want your children to get a religious education, pay for it yourself. i am not interested in my tax dollars supporting your church or parochial school.
support for the military: bill clinton has spent more time in vietnam than either mr. bush or mr. cheney
gun control: i purchased my last handgun (a browning 9mm high power if it matters) at a local gun show without showing any identification at all. even as the buyer, i thought this was stupid. the seller didn’t care if i was charles manson, he just saw the color of my cash.
the religious right: i think the gop has sold it’s soul for the religious vote. i think the power and influence of the christian coalition is bad for the country.
and finally, the balance of power: with 7/9ths of the u.s. supreme court appointed by conservatives, and the house and senate (at the time of the election) in the hands of the gop, i found the thought of a republican president to be a chilling prospect. all three of the branches of government in the hands of one party would upset the balance of power.
longhair’s prediction: whether mr. bush or mr. gore eventually wins this election, i think that the mid term election will give control of the house and senate to the opposition by a significant margin.
longhair.
Certainly no qualms with this one, although I feel that men should have a say in what happens to their children as well.
Agree totally here!!
Certainly you have the right to wish your tax dollars not to support something which you oppose, but if this is the case, parents who wish to send their children to parochial schools shouldn’t have to pay public school taxes, nor any tax they oppose??
…or Mr. Gore for that matter!
Nice purchase, although personally I’d prefer a .45 to a 9mm myself. Do you really welcome that presumption of guilt??? Realistically, I doubt criminals are going to gun shows to purchase weapons with serial numbers when they can get an untracable weapon off the street for significantly less?
Wouldn’t disagree with you there, although the left’s sale of its soul to the unions, environemntalists and reds certainly is no better for this country!
Once again, I fully agree with that statement!! Neither party should hold all 3 branches…leads to that beautiful gridlock that gets nothing done 
chilling…unless all 3 branches are held by liberals!
Too late to reply in detail to your posts in detail, Milossarian and Rugby Man; But, holy shit, you would think I had proposed only letting everybody keep say some certain amount of money each (let’s say $52,572.50, shall we?) rather than just suggesting that perhaps undoing what little progressivity exists in our current tax code would not be a good thing!!! [And, when you include all forms of taxation, there is apparently very little progressivity in the current tax code, where progressivity is defined as the total tax bite in terms of % of income…i.e., if that percentage increases at all with income, that is progressivity. By some analyses, there is in fact none.]
And, no, I don’t think it is zero sum. But, I do think there are some trade-offs…Trickle down economics doesn’t seem to work unless you define the trickle to be…well, really just a trickle! As for redistribution never having worked in the history of the planet, you might try taking that point up with those in every Western democracy save our own, since we are on the far end of that spectrum.
And, by the way, while my scores might classify me as a “socialist”, I don’t really see myself that way. After all, there weren’t really any questions on that test that would really differentiate very well among the left end of the spectrum. (I’m not sure what answer got me marginally more in compatibility with McReynolds than Nader…sort of curious myself.) Perhaps the same is true for the right side of the spectrum, although it is harder for me to objectively judge that.
Didn’t Bush say something similar to that? Oh yeah, he wanted EVERYBODY to keep more of the money that they earned.
The emphasis, of course, is on those last three words.
#1: David McReynolds (84%)
#2: Ralph Nader (71%)
#3: Albert Gore Jr. (67%)
#4: John Hagelin (47%)
#5: Harry Browne (39%)
#6: Patrick J. (Pat) Buchanan (32%)
#7: Howard Phillips (29%)
#8: George W. Bush (21%)
#9: Alan Keyes (15%)
So…I’m a socialist. Great.
BBBZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!
BTW:
[list=1][]Albert Gore Jr. (81%)[]David McReynolds (80%)[]Ralph Nader (73%)[]John Hagelin (52%)[]Patrick J. (Pat) Buchanan (28%)[]Howard Phillips (26%)[]George W. Bush (25%)[]Harry Browne (18%)Alan Keyes (9%)[/list=1]
My scores:
86 George W. Bush
82 Alan Keyes
79 Harry Browne
76 Howard Phillips
63 Patrick J. (Pat) Buchanan
55 John Hagelin
16 Albert Gore Jr.
13 David McReynolds
9 Ralph Nader
My two strongest issues are abortion and taxes. Anyone who is anti-abortion and for lower taxes can usually get my vote. I also admired Bush’s courageous stances on Social Security and school choice. I also really liked that Bush is a humble person which I think is critical for a leader in a republic. His personality and his record in TX were added incentives. The fact that his opponent was so unctuous made this a very easy choice.
Cheezuz, I’m over there partying on MPSIMS, I come up for air and LOOK WHAT’S HAPPENED! SD veteran Stoidela has taken a rant I made in a fit of post election frustration, and started a serious GD thread quoting it in toto.
I’m just a humble newbie, really (OK, maybe I have a giant chip on my shoulder, but still…)
:: Re-reads his original rant :: “Mm-hmm…”
:: Re-reads the OPs rant in the original thread. :: “A-ha!”
Right, NOW I remember where my vehemence came from. I was actually responding to xenophon41 and the vitriolic bile he spewed, particularly at my candidate. Not to mention the (misguided) kudos he received in response.
Of course, that being said, I still subscribe to the views I held in my rant. My primary political views descend (trickle down?) from my absolute belief that the federal government doesn’t exist to redistribute wealth and that taxes are a necessary evil that needs to be LIMITED TO THE ABSOLUTE MINIMUM ALLOWABLE TO KEEP THE COUNTRY RUNNING.
Still, I can’t bring myself to vote Libertarian precisely because they aren’t socially conservative enough.
Not to be redundant, but I’m obviously an economic conservative. I haven’t put as much thought into social conservatism, mostly because the majority of those issues touch at a deep, personal level. IMH[sub]and entirely accurate[/sub]O, too much government policy has sprung from gut-level feelings, rather than reasoned study and debate. I haven’t had the time/taken the time to study objectively the effects of much of 50 years of social engineering. Personally, I see certain aspects of societal “progress” and look at certain serious societal problems and see a not insubstantial link between these.
Personal experience has shown me intelligent people who would have made terrific contributions to this country, but they got hooked on drugs and literally were wasted. I’m sure you could show me examples of chronic users living productive lives, but I’d have to ask just how much better they’d be doing if they were clean. I do believe that drug use negatively affects society as a whole, I just don’t know how to prove it.
I found out my wife was an unexpected pregnancy. Her mother’s doctor offered her an abortion. I shudder violently when I think my beautiful sweet wife could have been scraped out and sucked into a sink, rather than becoming the gloriously beautiful soul she is. I honor my mother-in-law for NOT “exercising her right to choose”.
Additionally, though I don’t personally know anyone who wanted to commit suicide and was denied that chance, I see euthanasia as going hand-in-hand with abortion. I have a strong belief that there is a serious disregard for the sanctity of human life running through our society. I see this coming from “progress” giving us the right to end a life when it becomes difficult. I just don’t know how to prove it.
See what I mean, that these issues are more viscerally emotional than the economic ones?
I gotta get back to work…
sniff <wipes away tear> This makes it all worthwhile. If I can influence just one person’s thinking, I’ve made my contribution.
(Remember boys and girls, even if you lose every battle, fighting ignorance is still the good fight.)
Where exactly was this vitriolic bile spewed? That would be something I’ve never see from xeno.
See this thread: A cogent and measured political essay in The Pit.
Personally, I thought it was a beautiful rant. But perhaps I’m biased, given that xeno’s my cyber-fiance.
And deservedly so…He’s got lots to be humble about!
i’m finding this fascinating…everybody, come on! There’s what, 10k reginsted dopers? At least 100 of 'em are regulars here on the GD…
stoid
[sub]Haven’t spoken in a while, Sweetie; howzit goin’?[/sub]
Well, perhaps I’ll make myself a bit more clear. To be honest, I don’t give a damn about the progressivity/regressitivy of any tax. I consider taxation to be legalized theft and a moral evil, plain and simple (If a private individual came into your house and took 40% of what you earned, would you not be outraged? What’s the difference when the government does it legally? After all, a thief is only a free-lance tax collector). People have the right to enjoy what they produce how they see fit, without any interference from the government or any person, and honestly I find it sickening that people believe that they have a right to infringe on the benefits of his hard work.
[Additional hijack] Busy, busy and busier!! I work for a political consulting firm, so you can imagine how insane it’s been around here, I’m sure. My boss is the Treasurer for Congresswoman-elect Jane Harman who just won her seat back after an unsuccessful bid for the Governorship of California. Last week we threw a big party for her that was held at my boss’s house (75 people, fully catered, valet parking, etc.). [bragging a bit] I did all the planning and organizing for it, and it was such a huge, HUGE success that people are still talking about it, and Jane and her campaign manager sent me a gorgeous bouquet of a dozen long-stemmed, mixed-colored roses and a beautiful thank you letter.[/bragging]
This week I’m working on a similar party to be held at The Willard in DC for Congressman-elect Adam Schiff whose campaign we also supported.
And totally unrelated, but sortof not, if you want to see some pictures of my boss and his son with President Clinton and my boss with Senator Joe Lieberman, just click here. You can also see the holiday cards we got from President Clinton, here and from Vice President Gore, here. Of course they send out thousands of them (I know we aren’t that special ;)), but it’s still kindof cool to get cards from the Pres and the Veep. 
Sorry for the additional hijack to this thread, but since it’s political, I hoped no one would mind.
How 'bout you, hon? I hope all is well![/hijack]
That’s mega-cool, Rugby Man. Before now, it hadn’t occurred to me that you produce what you produce in a complete vacuum. You must live on some magic island, where you need no police, no employees, no public education, no roads, nobody to enforce contracts, … Wow!
Well, let me tell you about where the rest of us live. We live in a society. We are inextricably linked together. I have no idea how much I “take” from society each year and thus how much I owe in taxes even if I believe that I shouldn’t give a dime more than a take (which, of course, I don’t). In this society, we have set up a government because, quite honestly, we found that anarchy was kind of messy. It is our government, even if admittedly it is necessary to constantly be fighting with others who are trying to hijack it for their own ends. It certainly isn’t perfect, but it is a hell of a lot better than the alternative.
