Sorry, you’re wrong. The term “following” is so vague and and wide open it’s pretty useless in this conversation. You can follow Judaism in many different ways. My first religious school was a Lubuvitch synagogue and my mother was raised Hasidic in Poland. Her father was a Rebbe. My father fought for Israel in 1948. My parents were never orthodox in Israel or in the US. I am less observant than my parents are and yet my parents have no doubt that I am a “follower” of Judaism.
Your type of Jews vs Jews (who’s really a follower of Judaism) is not productive. There aren’t many of us, under the best of circumstances. We band together or we fall to the wayside.
I’ll try this again.
Orthodox jews, who are the only jews who still follow Judaism the way it was done for 1000’s of years, are also those jews who are most likely to vote Republican, and in areas that are the most traditional McCain for example did better then anywhere else in America. Conservative Jews have assimilated much more and they follow Judaism much less then Orthodox Jews but still more than reform. They are more likley to vote Republican, then a Reform Jew. Reform Jews are the most likley to vote for any Democrat. The next thing I said is that unaffiliated Jews who meet a few criteria of different measures of assimilation beyond reform Jews, are more likely to vote for a Republican then a Reform Jew. The reason for this is that the more one abandons Judaism the more there new religion is Liberalism, and the further one assimilates and drops all Jewish values he replaces is it with the democratic
party’s values. But at a certain point when they assimilate into American culture so much they begin to drop there new found religion to and then begin to slide back towards the Mainline American voting patterns.
The rest of what I was saying was based on why Jews originally joined the democratic party and why those some of those Liberal values became there core beliefs even when they are at extreme odds with Judaism’s position on those matters.
I understand what you are trying to say more clearly. Thank you.
I do disagree with many of your opinions, though. To say that liberalism replaces Judaism is nonsense, though. Reconstructionist Judaism has at it’s heart ethical Judaism. It is social liberalism sanctioned by religious authority. My conservative synagogue also was an early adopter of same-sex marriage and other very socially liberal ideals. Again, voiced through religion, not in replacement of it. I find Judaism to be the foundation on which my social and ethical beliefs lie. My social liberalism hardly replaces my religion.
Your a Jew not a follower of Judaism
read this http://commie.droryikra.com/archives/v62i9/features/rav.html
If all jews would follow your destructive suggestion (though I’m not saying you intend it to be destructive) then our children would like your children most likely be less religious till we all be a no more a people then most all other nations from 3,00 years ago.
(and just so you know your grandfather if he was truly a rebbe would agree with me 100% that Jew abandoning Judaism is the worst thing to have happened to Judaism in the past 250 years.
please explain to me this medrish rabbah (with out saying it has no meaning or any thing else simaler to it that would mean that you abandoned Judaism replacing it with Liberalism proving my point) god didn’t decree destroy the world by the flood untill man started writing marriage documents for other men. In short Conservative "jewish (so called ) religous authority “has replaced Judaism with social liberalism” which runs counter to the most basic of jewish laws.
If he truly was a Rebbe? Yes he was. He was a Rebbe for the town of Lodz in Poland, before he died in the ghetto and my mother, her mother and their family were send to the camps.
You doubt me for no reason, and that is a shame.
You and I have no language with which to discuss this further, I’m afraid. The good news is that I accept you much easier than you will accept me. I am not looking for your validation and you do not need mine. I know who I am and who my children are. The sad thing is, that which separates us is much less important than that which binds us. But to you, the opposite is true.
I have no idea. What does that have to do with anything? I’m not Reconstructionist myself, so I am not entirely well versed in it’s history.
ETA: Actually, I take it back- I know if at least one family. My Rabbi (briefly) at a former Conservative shul was ordained Reconstructionist. His children were Reconstructionist as well, and I believe they have grandkids now.
ETA2: HEre’s a brief link: Reconstructionist Judaism - Wikipedia Seems quite likely that a movement that started in the 1920s would have a few multi-generaltional adherents.
It’s simple. There are no 3rd generation Reconstructionist Jews. They assimilate completely. There are few 3rd generation “Reform” Jews. They assimilate less readily but still at very alarming rates.
Orthodox Jews are the ones that perpetuate Jewry through the ages. There are always Jews who “know better” - they splinter off, then disappear in a couple of generations.
I can see this in my wife’s family. Great-grandfather was a rabbi. Grandfather was a socialist and one of the leaders of the Warsaw uprising. Father is basically an atheist. She married me, so there is a bit of a return to Judaism there (although I am not orthodox). Her sister doesn’t really care about Judaism. Sister’s kids have no connection to Judaism whatsoever.
As the once-popular Israeli song says: “Avarnu et Par’oh, naavor gam et ze”.
you miss understood what I meant, I meant if he was truly a rebbe as opposed to one who merely inherited the title. In other words he truly was a rebbe as opposed to a fake Rebbe.
Considering that I lost the bulk of my family in the camps, my parents survived such hardships to come to the US and make a life here, to be read what I’m reading here breaks my heart. I’m outta here. These attitudes are exactly why my mother broke away from the orthodoxy when she came here.
I actually had to recommend to my wife that she not read the thread, given the punishing “You’re not a REAL Jew” attitudes she already must endure as a convert to Judaism who married a non-Jew–everything from the casual bigotry of “Oh, you didn’t grow up with grandma’s latke recipe? You poor dear, how do you manage being Jewish?” to not being allowed to be married in the synagogue she’s supported with her time and sweat and money for years (thankfully, the new rabbi is not a complete douchebag like the old one was and I am welcome to show up in the tow of my wife and daughter. Ironically, he’s Conservative, and the old one was Reform).
What can you do, though? There are ALWAYS going to be the kind of people who insist that folks finding their own path is wrong, and that there’s no wisdom today better than the wisdom of ages ago.
That many of us find the opposite of that last statement to be more true every day doesn’t enter into their minds.
Judisim has clear rules over who’s jewish and the only ones who meet those criteria are people who’s mothers were jewish or had a valid conversion. And since a Conservative conversion is worthless then unless she had valid conversion (which includes excepting all the commandments plus being administered by non heretics) she is not jewish no matter how much she claims to be. (though if she would want to be jew and be fully excepted she should get a Orthodox conversion and practice Judaism. In those same Orthodox communities that you love to bash take the commandment to love a convert very seriously and we will never say to someone who truly converted that they are not truly jewish and are in fact forbidden to ever bring up his old life)
nothing directly. Judaism this is clearly forbidden and therefore the person who doesn’t eat pork is closer to True Judaism then someone who eats pork, and True Judaism’s positions in most areas are much closer to the Republican party (both ideologically and pragmatically) now the democrat. So someone who eats pork is much less likely to care about other jews in a people-hood sense of the word and therefore are much less likely to vote for they party that is in most cases much more aliened with Jewish interests.
don’t mistake my comments for an attack, for example one of the biggest rabbis since WWII in America said that there were only 2 real hasidic rebbes (at the time he said the qoute)
You take your conclusion too far. Non-Orthodox Jews identify as Jews strongly and have a strong sense of unity with Jewish interests. In my experience, that which DOES bind most Jews I know is the desire to protect Jewish interests. Love of Israel, desire to not make this a Christian country, freedom of religion and liberal ideals (like Tikkun Olum and ethical treatment of all people).
You may argue that those are not what you define as Jewish ideals. I would argue that you are incorrect. My experience has as much validity as yours. Just like we do not practice Judaism as was done in the time of the Temple, Judaism evolves as it did to survive the diaspora. It will evolve and survive again.
You may think your attitude is not an attack. You are mistaken. It is an attack on what those of us non-Orthodox Jews hold dear- our self identity as Jews and practicing Jews. It is attitudes like those you’ve described that are the true destructive force today, more so that many other outside assaults.