Because we, the Jews, say so.
Again, does the Loyal Order of Moose and Squirrel have the right to determine who their members are, or do you, a non-member.
Because we, the Jews, say so.
Because we, the Jews, say so.
What part of this, exactly, is giving you trouble?
See, this I disagree with. They might be culturally Jewish (eating lox and bagels, coming home for the holidays and enjoying their family) but not religious. I can wrap my brain around someone who chooses another religion not being “Jewish” per se, but still being more than just having “Jewish ancestry” if Jewish culture is still an active part of their lives.
[quote=]
If belief in God is not important to being a religious Jew, why does it matter if you believe in another God?
[/quote]
If their belief is private I’d have no way of knowing. I imagine most people who choose another religion choose to practice that religion- so again, it goes back to acts. I have to imagine this contorted scenario of a Jew who actively chooses another religion but choose to observe Jewish practices identically as before is so extraordinarily rare to render it kinda pointless.
The point isn’t whether you believe in Zeus. The point is that you publicly proclaim your belief in Zeus. That is against the “rules”. Thou shalt have no other god before me.
You can believe in Zeus all you want, or Vishnu for that matter. Judaism lacks an Inquisition. But you cannot convert to Zeus-worship or Hinduism.
Being an atheist is not a public allegiance to another god or religion, because atheism is not a religion and has no god.
In reality this never comes up, because those who believe in Zeus generally have no problems leaving Judaism and taking up Zeus-worship or whatever.
Well, part of Jewish culture is, for instance, not believing in the divinity of Jesus. If you convert to Christianity you have stepped outside of Jewish Culture to a degree that you’re no longer culturally Jewish, even if you still do other bits of Jewish culture. They’re non-Jews of Jewish heritage.
Just like someone who was raised in America and loves McDonalds and the Super Bowl and such, but who goes to Saudi Arabia and joins the religious police is no longer culturally American, but they came from an American heritage.
I guess this is a fine point we can disagree with- I could accept someone who still feels a connection to their cultural roots (Jewish food etc) as being more than some distant “ancestry”.
I don’t think it has to be distant. The ancestry can be quite proximate. Their parents were Jewish and they were raised Jewish, but they left the group. If you prefer, would a term like “a gentile of Jewish heritage and upbringing?”
It is simply “the rules”. You can’t simultaenously be Jewish and, say, Muslim.
It may not be fair, but that’s just the way it is. Like how some countries do not permit dual citizenship.
That part is from the commandments, as you say. The Shema says
“O Israel: the Lord is our God, the Lord is One”
This is not about not having other gods before God. It is stating “The Lord is One”.
You cannot believe that he is One if you believe he doesn’t exist.
I may me off base, but maybe Judaism throughout the centuries, in order to survive the Diaspora had to come up with some sort of framework under which even atheist Jews were still considered Jews, so that the Jewish minority in the various countries it was in did not diminish in numbers. But I doubt that this “It’s OK if you don’t believe in God” is the original intent of whoever wrote Shema Yisrael and the phrase “The Lord is our God, the Lord is One”
Why do you celebrate the 4th of July? Fireworks are as dangerous as pork is delicious after all. Why do fraternities have toga parties instead of just another drink beer night–none of them are Romans.
Some personality types gain comfort from following a fixed set of rules and rituals, especially rules and rituals that are traditional to their family/tribe/culture, regardless of whether or not those rituals have any logical basis as they understand it.
For a minor example: I make peroghi on Christmas Eve. With little buns, and some whitefish, and no meats. Why? My mother’s Eastern European Catholic traditions had Christmas Eve as a refrain-from-meat partial fast day. I’m not Catholic; I don’t believe in that god. I love eating steak. Hell, my wife is Jewish. Yet I persist in the tradition, because it’s a point of connection with my mother’s family line.
If that doesn’t do it for you, that’s cool–but it’s not a stupid or obscure motivation.
Look,
[ul]
[li]If you proclaim “I believe in Zeus” you are violating “Thou shalt have no other god before me”, which is the second commandment, and so you can’t be a religious Jew.[/li][li]If you proclaim “I don’t believe in God” you are also violating “Thou shalt have no other god before me”, because you are stating that there is no “me” there. You are also going against the first commandment, which states “I am the Lord your God, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;” Because if you publicly state “I don’t believe in God”, then you are publicly stating that the first commandment cannot be true, and so you can’t be a religious Jew.[/li][/ul]
So, I fail to see how you can publicly proclaim to be an atheist and still follow the Ten Commandments and be a religious Jew.
I get what you’re saying, and I probably agree deep down. Maybe “raised Jewish” would work for me. As in “I’m Muslim, but I was raised Jewish so pass the gefilte fish.”
Got a good recipe? I’ve only made the store bought ones and they’re not as awesome as I might like.
etc.
Also, if she is anything other than Reform or (possibly? someone help me out here?) Reconstructionist, how are you two going to get married by her rabbi? (Yes, marriage is between two people, but you know that I mean.)
Do you see how this creates problems?
You say “can’t be” elitists. There are plenty of Jewish elitists. Walk into any shul and see certain folk who think they are important because part of a building is named after their grandfather. 
We are saying that Jews aren’t elitist based on the fact that many want to marry other Jews. That’s not being elitist. That’s being, well, practical and smart for some while being religious for others.
Did you guys date? How is it a relationship if you didn’t date? Okay, you entertained a flirthood…I’m not sure what exactly led you to believe that you were on your way to relationshipland.
It suggests that perhaps the woman valued her personal happiness, her identity, and her family structure over what could’ve been a passing love interest.
Not exactly. You can’t force someone to believe in God, but you can force someone to practice something.
Many atheist Jews practice freely without the belief in God. (I’m an example of someone who doesn’t adamantly seek to disprove God [impossible] or anything, I just don’t feel that there is one and I don’t care if others do or not. It’s a non-issue to me.) However, according to Jewish law, you can’t be disbarred from being a Jew because of a non-belief. It’s not required to be a Jew - though for some Orthodox, it is extremely problematic if you are an atheist or agnostic.
There are Christians who practice without believing in God. They self-identify as Christian and since we haven’t had an Inquisition in recent years, they are considered Christians unless they make it pretty well known. Then they become Universalist Unitarians or Religious Humanists or something.
If you look at basic Christian doctrine, it clearly states that you must believe in Jesus as your personal Savior for salvation [from Hell]. Anyone who does not and claims to be a Christian is just a charlatan. It’s part of the “faith” v. “works” debate.
Judaism doesn’t have a set of tenets. You can look here for a glimpse:
Nope.
Dating in general: All but one Israeli that I’ve dated were atheist Jews. The Israeli Modern Orthodox Jew, oh that was a trip. Our first date was at his family’s Shabbat table!
Most of my “relationships” (real ones, not just a date or two) have been with theist Jews. I did make two exceptions to my Rule by dating atheists who were willing to live Jewish lifestyles, but no marriage came out of those. In fact, that’s where I became uneasy about marriage – wow, to get married to someone I love and not be able to stand under the chuppah with my rabbi at my side? I’d have a hard time dating a non-Jew now because I don’t want to lead anyone on unless I’m 110 per cent OK with it. There are plenty of single men out there. I’m sure one of them is Jewish and compatible.
The non-practicing boyfriend (for me) can be the problem because then I feel like a nag when I ask a boyfriend to up the ante for me on Passover or something. Still preferable to a non-Jew, though.
I’ve had dates and flirtations with several non-practicing but theist (or possibly agnostic) Jews. This seems to be the biggest group here in Denver – the Cultural Tribe. Some believe in God, some don’t, some don’t care, but all are very involved in the Jewish community here. Some have memberships to shuls, some don’t, some only go to their Conservative or Modox or Reform shul when it’s High Holidays. We all like a good Purim party. Of this huge group here, I’m seeing that most marry within their lifestyle choices. And yeah, the Chabadare part of this group. You can be part of this group and still part of your own synagogue/neighborhood/chavurah.
Jews are a big dysfunctional family. 
I’m trying to explain.
No. I used to keep kosher, but not now. I love cheeseburgers. I still can’t bring myself to eat pork or rabbit, though.
It’s hard to say there are certain tenets of Judaism. If you want to say “laws”, then well, I break a lot of them! I drive on Shabbos, mix my meat and dairy, believe women should be rabbis if they are so qualified, think that (Jewish) same-sex couples should be granted marriages sanctioned by the rabbinate…
The only force I follow is…well I don’t know what you mean by force.
But I do believe in Jewish people the way that others believe in doing what’s best for their country or their family. If I marry a non-Jewish person, I kind of lose part of myself. Your spouse is supposed to grow with you and help you grow. How do I grow as a Jewish person without a Jewish spouse?
I like sushi? 
Halachachly speaking, yes. Many streams of Judaism accept one born of a Jewish father. You can convert as well. You can be adopted into a Jewish family and be raised Jewish and confirmed Jewish.
No. A Goldberg surname a Jew does not make.
I appreciate the sincerity of that statement and I think some Dopers are trying to help with that.
God is everything. Without a belief in God or working as though God exists, there would be no Judaism. But please understand that belief in a deity is not everything. It’s what you do with it.
Consider these Jewish laws:
On Business:[ul]
[li]Not to commit fraud in measuring (Lev. 19:35) (CCN83).[/li][li]To ensure that scales and weights are correct (Lev. 19:36) (affirmative).[/li][li]Not to possess inaccurate measures and weights (Deut. 25:13-14) (CCN84). [/li][li]Not to delay payment of a hired man’s wages (Lev. 19:13) (CCN38).[/li][/ul]
On the Court System:
[ul]
[li]To adjudicate cases of purchase and sale (Lev. 25:14) (CCA67).[/li][li]To judge cases of liability of a paid depositary (Ex. 22:9) (affirmative).[/li][li]To adjudicate cases of loss for which a gratuitous borrower is liable (Ex. 22:13-14) (affirmative).[/li][li]To adjudicate cases of inheritances (Num. 27:8-11) (CCA73).[/li][li]To judge cases of damage caused by an uncovered pit (Ex. 21:33-34) (affirmative).[/li][li]To judge cases of injuries caused by beasts (Ex. 21:35-36) (affirmative). [/li][li]To adjudicate cases of damage caused by trespass of cattle (Ex. 22:4) (affirmative).[/li][li]To adjudicate cases of damage caused by fire (Ex. 22:5) (affirmative).[/li][li]To adjudicate cases of damage caused by a gratuitous depositary (Ex. 22:6-7) (affirmative).[/li][li]To adjudicate other cases between a plaintiff and a defendant (Ex. 22:8) (affirmative).[/li][li]Not to curse a judge (Ex. 22:27) (CCN63).[/li][li]That one who possesses evidence shall testify in Court (Lev. 5:1) (affirmative).[/li][li]Not to testify falsely (Ex. 20:13) (CCN39).[/li][li]That a witness, who has testified in a capital case, shall not lay down the law in that particular case (Num. 35:30) (negative).[/li][li]That a transgressor shall not testify (Ex. 23:1) (CCN75).[/li][li]That the court shall not accept the testimony of a close relative of the defendant in matters of capital punishment (Deut. 24:16) (CCN74). [/li][li]Not to hear one of the parties to a suit in the absence of the other party (Ex. 23:1) (CCN65).[/li][li]To examine witnesses thoroughly (Deut. 13:15) (affirmative).[/li][li]Not to decide a case on the evidence of a single witness (Deut. 19:15) (CCN73).[/li][li]To give the decision according to the majority, when there is a difference of opinion among the members of the Sanhedrin as to matters of law (Ex. 23:2) (affirmative).[/li][li]Not to decide, in capital cases, according to the view of the majority, when those who are for condemnation exceed by one only, those who are for acquittal (Ex. 23:2) (negative).[/li][li]That, in capital cases, one who had argued for acquittal, shall not later on argue for condemnation (Ex. 23:2) (negative).[/li][li]To treat parties in a litigation with equal impartiality (Lev. 19:15) (affirmative).[/li][li]Not to render iniquitous decisions (Lev. 19:15) (CCN69).[/li][li]Not to favor a great man when trying a case (Lev. 19:15) (CCN70).[/li][li]Not to take a bribe (Ex. 23:8) (CCN71).[/li][/ul]
Criminal Law:[ul]
[li]Not to slay an innocent person (Ex. 20:13) (CCN32). See Life.[/li][li]Not to kidnap any person of Israel (Ex. 20:13) (according to the Talmud, this verse refers to stealing a person, distinguished from Lev. 19:11, regarding the taking of property) (CCN33).[/li][li]Not to rob by violence (Lev. 19:13) (CCN35).[/li][/ul]
Obviously you can pull from this list things that seem elitist, unfair, sexist, or what have you, but I’m showing just a small handful of the 613 to show that Jewish law has more to do with Jewish people than with God. To do mitzvot* is* honoring God.
There are two main kinds of order. The order in which you do things (like seder) and the law or custom that keeps people in order (like halacha).
We do it this way because we would like to survive. I don’t want to imagine a world where little Jewish children aren’t singing the Four Questions.
I’ll PM you my Grandma’s when I get home. Caution: makes approximately 100. (but they freeze ever so well).
This is hilarious. The first item on the page is
1. To know that G-d exists
How can anyone who publicly proclaims to be an atheist also claim to follow the 613 mitzvot, when the first one contradicts their public proclamation that they don’t believe in God?
Too bad, because that’s the reality of the future. The Jews are dwindling in number, due to intermarriage and abandoning of the religion, and I suspect that most of the Jews who are doing this are doing it because they were raised by parents like mine.
The only Jews who are growing in their numbers are Orthodox Jews. Whether it’s in America or in Israel, the Orthodox have high birth rates.
It’s not a rank order. It’s one of 613. Why is it so important to discredit what Jewish scholars find acceptable?
You are missing out a word; The actual line is “Hear O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One”.
Now, this ommission may seem minor, but in fact it demonstrates the whole point: it is a public proclamation of a community’s beliefs.
Now, no doubt the original Jews never even considered atheism, because they lived in a world mostly composed of competing religions where atheists were a vanishingly tiny group.
However, Judaism is a religion composed of rules, and exactly none of the “rules” require an inquisition into a person’s actual beliefs.
You may find this bizzare and absurd, but them’s the rules.
In addition, no one is suggesting that Orthodox Judaism would be comfortable with atheism. I find that impossible to imagine. We are discussing Conservative, Reform and Reconstructionist beliefs, for the most part. And even within these sects there is tremendous local control of the implementation of Jewish Law. How egalitarian a synagogue is, what rights non-Jewish members have, recognition of Gay marriage etc are basically under local (congregational) influence. Most Jews are not Torah literalists to begin with.
First, the 613 Mitzvot does not Judaism make. The site even states as much.
Them’s not “the rules”, unless you are Orthodox. They are not universal to all Judaism.
Second, follow the biblical citations. They do not require what the compiler states that they require. The compiler cites Ex. 20:2; Deut. 5:6
and
Third, they are not in order of rank.