There are a lot fewer bad guys/gals than is let on in these threads. I’m a good guy, you’re a good gal, that fella over there, he’s a pretty okay guy too.
What happens is: people change. Could be appearances, could be job stress, could be travel, could be hormonal imbalances as a result of the birth control, could be daddy issues, could be low self esteem, could be marrying the wrong person for the wrong reasons, could be external stresses (death in the family, money issues, employment issues, relationship issues)
Saying “Why on earth did ya put a ring on her if she din’t put out?” is right up there with “So, do you still beat your wife?”
Could also be that your spouse comes to represent all the crap in your life (The mortgage you can’t pay, the roof you can’t paint, the Car loan that’s upside down) and that sexual fling is a way to do anything emotionally selfish that doesn’t have a ton of baggage trailing behind it.
I’ve been faithful. I’ve never strayed. But I have seen that path from where I’ve stood.
I don’t believe this for one second. I haven’t heard of many men who cheated because they wanted a blow job and their wives wouldn’t comply. I have heard of many men who have cheated because they weren’t getting along with their wives in other areas of the relationship, or because they were seeking novelty and excitement. It’s rarely about the type of sex the spouses are having.
And to answer your original question, sex isn’t the be all and end all for all men. Just like any other choice in life, you weigh what’s good against what’s not so good and make your decision. I don’t really know why that would be so difficult for you to understand.
For the reason I explained: sex is, for most people, the fundamental dividing line between your spouse and everyone else. If the very thing that defines your relationship as more and different than a very important and wonderful friendship isn’t all that great, what’s the point? Why not share all the good stuff you share that isn’t sex in a context other than the context of “You are the person I’ve chosen as my sexual partner”? It just seems bizarre.
Only if you don’t accept the question as presented. If I meant “Why didn’t you leave your spouse after the sex fell apart?” that’s what I would have asked.
I’m talking about making the conscious decision to marry someone you know out the gate isn’t rocking your world sexually.
What would surprise me is that the subject would even come up in this case. If it did, my guesses would be that either the guy thought she would change her mind with time, or he was desperate and thought that the alternative was getting nothing.
Do you have any real examples you know of?
Yes there is. A marriage with good sex but with two people with wildly different financial habits is likely to be a disaster also. Isn’t it reasonable to choose someone who is compatible with you in all the areas that are important?
Because marriage isn’t only, or even mainly, about choosing a compatible sexual partner. If you don’t get that, nobody is going to be able to explain it to you. There are many, many things that differentiate my relationship with my husband from my relationship with my friends. Sex is only one of those things.
I don’t think that happens very often, but if they actually do marry women who they know will be THAT sexually incompatible with them, it generally means they are marrying for cynical or naive reasons other than love – for money, for a beard, for religious reasons, for social reasons, for kids.
Having said that, Stoid is simply mistaken in thinking that sex is the primary defining characteristic of marriage, or that it’s the primary thing that separates the relationship from with non-spousal relationships. Even people who have sex putside the marriage can still have a mich different relationship with their spouse than other people they only have sex with.
I think you need to rethink that assumption. Marriage is as much a social, legal and economic arrangement as it is a sexual one. Even more, to me, because you can have sex with any number of people that you don’t marry, and you can marry someone you aren’t having sex with or don’t even love. Maybe for you sex is the most important, or defining characteristic of a marraige but I don’t think that is the case for everyone.
Shall I go into depth about the MANY men who have approached me, telling me in depth what they would like to do with me because their wives would not?
It is more than just blowjobs. So many people these days have bizarre and not-so-bizarre fantasies. Peruse Craigslist for a mere five minutes and read the dozens upon dozens of entries of guys who are “otherwise happily married” but who would just like to go down on a woman, or who want to have oral, or who want to have anal…
It doesn’t even have to be the most defining or important characteristic of romantic love. In fact, I think it can’t be, or the relationship won’t last.
I understand what kind of an “arrangement” it can be and is, but what is the difference between Person A whom you love and respect and enjoy, and Person B whom you love and respect and enjoy and marry? Isn’t it sex? If it isn’t sex, why not just go ahead and marry your best friend, of whatever sex? The person you pick to marry is someone you have sex with. And if you aren’t having sex with them, then it’s not really marriage. (See my comment about immigration).
However, it’s always important to be careful in the language being used. “Most important” is **not the same thing **as “defining”. I believe it is entirely accurate and fair to say that the fact that you have a sexual relationship with your spouse defines the difference between that relationship and all others. That doesn’t mean it’s the most important, but it is important and it is meaningful and it absolutely is the defining difference, so it’s not at all strange for me to find it strange that people would enter into marriages knowing that this aspect of the relationship isn’t genuinely satisfying.
ALSO… Sex is important, period. Not for every single person, because people are different. But it is important to the majority of people, and important in many ways, on many levels, and furthermore its importance is often underplayed because of various cultural and social issues that people have to wade through to feel comfortable with sex. So treating it as if it is not really that important by making a commitment to be sexually exclusive with someone that doesn’t really satisfy you sexually could be and I think probably often turns out to be pretty unhealthy in the big picture.
It’s not so black and white. There are people with whom sex is great but there is nothing else and there are people with whom the relationship is great but there is no sex. Typically the person you make a long term commitment to is someone who provides both sex and a good relationship but that doesn’t guarantee both of those things are perfect. For some people the relationship part may be more important. That’s not to say the sex doesn’t exist at all, just that it is of less importance overall than other aspects of the relationship.
I find it very difficult to believe there are men out there who have a perfect relationship except the wife won’t perform one sex act and for that they cheat. The sex problems are just a symptom of deeper issues. If the man is thinking of cheating then the relationship is on the rocks and it’s not because of one sex act. To put it another way, a man who values a blowjob over his relationship with his wife is not in a good relationship.
I will agree with that philosophically, but there are so many men who rationalize that their relationship is “perfect except for [insert certain sex act].” In their minds, they believe they are doing their wife a favor by cheating for [insert certain sex act] and not berating or begging their wife for the favor.
I completely agree that they are not in a good relationship if they let themselves get to this point and I have argued this point a number of times with guys who take this route of rationalization. Because it is “just sex,” they don’t see the damage they are doing by cheating. For them, it is not a deeper issue, it is simply a particular fetish of this sort or that – an itch they wish to scratch, as it were – that they wish to satisfy without destroying the bonds of their marriage.
I believe they are wrong, but I know for a fact that because they are thinking with their little brain between their legs and not their big brains, they would not agree that their relationship has problems.
They aren’t wrong for themselves, because the itch that needs scratching is true for them. What they don’t or can’t understand is that making that decision for themselves isn’t acceptable because no matter their intention, she will be affected by it.
But for him, it really is just sex. And as a woman, I have to say I feel for men, because it does seem that the expectation is on them to always understand us and our feelings and attitudes, rather than the reverse.
This isn’t necessarily bad (please, hear me out) Example: consumption of porn. At this point in our relationship, my wife really doesn’t care anymore. Very early on, she saw it as something she wasn’t doing…if I was getting adequately serviced, I wouldn’t need it.
But things really settled down in our relationship when the libido gap was handled by my own devices. A little porn, a little lube, and suddenly there’s no spousal tension, and next week when she feels the itch, we have a good time.
Just sayin there’s ways to scratch an itch that end up helping the relationship.
I would not say it isn’t important. The issue is whether lack of some particular sex act one of the partners is into, is or ought to be, a “deal breaker”.
You OP wasn’t about a completely sexless marriage, but rather about one lacking, say, BJs.
To my mind, one could rationally choose to forego BJs, knowing full well in advance the other person isn’t into them, because having non-BJ-filled sex is (while not perfect) pretty good, and the rest of the relationship - is worth it for various reasons.
It is only human nature, after the marriage deal is done, to want all the good stuff you get with your spouse - plus BJs (or whatever) as well. Thus, for some, cheating (i.e., getting BJs on the side from someone else, and not telling the wife).
“My wife doesn’t understand me.” Oh, no, honey, your wife understands you just so well…
Richard Pearse, I’d ask you to marry me, only I’m not very interested in either marriage or necrophilia and your title says you’re dead…
Stoid, in many cultures, sexual compatibility doesn’t even enter the list of “reasons to enter a marriage”. This is changing, but still the way it is for many people. In some of those cultures, marriage is something you do in order to produce grandsons for your parents, not in order to make yourself happy. In others, wifes accept that their man may be shared. I know a woman who was ok with her man being a whoremonger because he talked in his sleep and that’s how she got to learn about acts she would never otherwise have heard of - if what he’d done in his last trip to a brothel sounded interesting, she’d ask him to do it with her. Does that make them sexually compatible or not?
If you’re in a relationship and cheating, for whatever reason, it’s not a good relationship. Something has gone wrong somewhere along the line. But, there really are situations where a husband is being victimized by the wife by her refusing him sex. The problem with those situations is that maybe the husband doesn’t want to end the relationship and really wants to work things out, but whenever they go to marriage counseling, what does he hear?
“You must not be satisfying her. You must not be fulfilling her emotional needs. Your desires are gross/wrong/too strong.”
Sometimes women don’t want sex and are cruel to their husbands on this front and it really, truly, honestly isn’t because “men suck and men suck in bed” or something like that. There are female asexuals out there, or women who have serious psychological hangups, or hormone imbalances, or all sorts of things. But the response most of these guys get when they try to seek help is “must be your fault, it’s your responsibility to keep the wife wanting more.”
When one spouse stops sharing that intimacy with their partner, it’s the one stopping doing harm to the relationship. I don’t think cheating is the answer, but the desperate need to feel wanted and desirable can drive someone to do really stupid, hurtful things. I think a lot of that cheating could be circumvented if there was more understanding that sometimes a husband can be victimized by being shut out from marital intimacy and that this is a problem that needs to be treated like any other example of emotional cruelty when trying to deal with marital problems.