Why do men rape?

In My Humble Opinion
41

sailor, and others:

63% of completed rapes, 65% of attempted rapes, and 74% of attempted and completed sexual assaults were unreported for the years 1992-2000, according to the Bureau of Justice (PDF or Text). In cases where the victim knew the offender, the numbers are even higher.

If you want to stand by this statement, you better start compiling. That falls under what I would call “extraordinary claims” and we all know what sort of evidence that requires. I’ll make it easy on you. Find some credible evidence that the number is even 1 in 5, and I’ll be satisfied that there is a major problem with false reporting.

That’s not a very good analogy. Your example rape situations would be more similar to expecting not to have an acquaintance, date, husband, etc. steal your money in the privacy of your (or their) own homes. I think that’s a reasonable expectation that one should be able to make.

As to the question in the title, I don’t know if we have the data to answer that fully yet, but I’ll bet it’s not mini-skirts and kissing.

As to the OP’s thread question, I think that’s a pretty broad statement, as I’m a male and I love women.

42

Oo. Semantics.

Look, sailor - we can argue about definitions, we can argue about numbers, we can argue about agendas… until this sort of thing happens to your mother, your sister, or God forbid, your CHILD, you’ll be able to brush it all off. Truth is, my friend, you probably live with - or work with - women who have gone through this kind of hell, and you’re just not aware of it.

Talk openly about it, at some point, when you’re with female friends and coworkers. See what kind of response you get to your statements.

It’s hard to grasp until it hits close to home.

And the day it will, you may be singing a different tune.

As for statistics - it’s a flawed science, we know that. Feminist groups aren’t out there pushing a “men are evil” agenda - if you think this is the case, then you need to get your head out of the sand. Feminist groups are more likely to be pushing for women to step forward and take charge, to cry out for help, and to GET the help they so badly need.

The definition of rape is complicated, it is true, and it has been argued at length on these boards. But for what it’s worth, the statistics are still high (better than they were a few years ago…) - even if we take the conservative estimates in mind.

E.

43

DMC, that reporyt cites a yearly average for the last ten years of 132,000 rapes including unreported rapes which is in the ballpark of what we have admitted but a far cry from 638,000 and other unreasonably high numbers some people have claimed.

I think my analogy is very valid in that you have a legal right to do something but you also know from real world experience that the consequences may be not good. If knowing from real world results what the consequences of certain actions are you still choose to do them, then you should not be surprised.

We all agree that one rape is one rape too many and the actual numbers are not the crux of this discussion. But if you want to diminish the number of rapes the most effective way by far is for women to adjust their actions to the real world fact that when they go out with a guy and get drunk or use drugs and wind up in a lonely place often times bad things happen. And in bad things I am not only talking about rape, I am talking about car accidents and about STDs and a lot of other bad things that happen when people do stupid things. An intelligent woman who acts prudently has a much smaller chance of being raped than a woman who often puts herself in risky situations.

44

sailor - unfortunately, ‘risky situation’ includes going out on a date and letting him drive. 'cause of course, if he’s of that type (and they don’t wear convenient uniforms), merely getting in the car w/him at the wheel means you could potentially be in a secluded place pretty damn quickly.

and, of course, if I’m with friends why in the hell should I specifically refrain from drinking or whatever, merely 'cause some of the people I know there are male and might take advantage of the situation.

Date rape/acquaintence rape includes situations where the woman is with people she felt she could trust. YOur insistence that if she’s ‘smart’ she’d reduce her chances ignores the fact that some guys are very, very skilled at hiding their personalities etc.

45

I just presented the numbers that were in argument, and you were the one who stated that “estimated” meant made up. You found 84% impossible to believe, but 63-74% is perfectly reasonable? Working with completed and attempted rape, but leaving out sexual assault, I came up with an estimate of 1 in 11 (9% of) women will be the victim of a rape attempt in their lifetime. That’s based on an average of 131,950 completed rapes, 98,970 attempted rates per year, using a conservative window of 50 years for possible rape victimhood, and 125 million women. I wouldn’t care if I was off by a factor of 5 (but I’m not), that’s still utterly horrific.

Using your analogy, a woman would be required to store her vagina in a vault if she didn’t want to be raped. :rolleyes:

The consequence of drinking and going home with someone isn’t rape, unless that someone is a rapist. Victims don’t “create” rapists, they encounter them.

Cite? I’ve been the male in the above situation (minus the drugs) and never once did raping my partner cross my mind. Your statement would again imply that the victim somehow created the rape situation, which is borderline misogyny.

A women who locks herself into her bathroom and never leaves also cuts down her chances of being raped, but not because she’s smart, simply because she has little chance in those circumstances of encountering a rapist.

46

wring

>>unfortunately, ‘risky situation’ includes going out on a date and letting him drive.

Yes, unfortunately that is the way it is. It shouldn’t be, but it is.

>> if I’m with friends why in the hell should I specifically refrain from drinking or whatever, merely 'cause some of the people I know there are male and might take advantage of the situation.

Because it diminishes the risk of many bad things happening. You have the right to do as you please but reality is that you are assuming risks and not only of rape. I am not saying that is the way it should be, but that is the way it is.

>> Date rape/acquaintence rape includes situations where the woman is with people she felt she could trust. YOur insistence that if she’s ‘smart’ she’d reduce her chances ignores the fact that some guys are very, very skilled at hiding their personalities etc.

I agree. The risk is always there but you can try to minimise it. Since some guys are skilled at hiding their personalities so much more reason to be careful.

I do not understand why my saying that a woman should be careful is met like I am justifying rape but I have not heard any proposals of what to do to lower the number of rapes. I am just dealing with real life. The fact is some men will rape and that the chances of them attempting to do it increase exponentially if they are under the influence of alcohol or drugs. It is a fact that these men exist and they do not wear uniforms to be easily identified. Now, you can bitch about it all day and gain nothing, or you can try to act prudently so as to diminish your chances of being a victim.

We all agree men should not rape or steal or kill or many other things but the fact is some of them do and certain circumstances increase the odds that they’ll do it. You can bitch about it all day or you can try to diminish your odds of becoming a victim. I have much more sympathy for the person who became a victim in spite of being prudent than for the person who was reckless and became a victim. Everyone is free to do as they please and I am free to give my sympathy to whom I please.

47

Got tired of reading, sorry if I’m repeating but, did this report include in their stats of men on men rape in prison.

Since the prison population is absolutely HUGE, that could be a significant number.

I just heard last week that one in four of the population is in prison. That can’t be right, can it?

Either way prison rape (even by females) has to account for a big portion of that stat.

48

Prison rape was not included in the BoJ’s statistics.

49

sailor what you are suggesting is that in order for the ‘smart’ woman to reduce her risk of being raped, she should assume every male around her will rape, never trust any male to drive her anywhere and not drink anything (including water, since GHB can be mixed in w/liquids) when men are present, that she should only go on elevators if she’s the only person, but refrain from getting on a subway or train car if it isn’t full of other people, that she should not walk alone at anytime down streets that have alleyways or doors leading to buildings (since some one can be lurking in them and snatch them).

At some point in normal human contact, we get into cars w/others, we eat, drink with others. To suggest that 51% of the population should refrain from doing this long list of behavior that can be considered ‘risky’ in order to avoid being raped by the other 49% is not a good solution.

it is blaming the victim.

50

The number I heard re: supervision was one in 30 were under supervision - inside a prison or jail or on probation or on parole.

51

close - it was one in 32

52

wring, so what solution do you propose?

53

Prosecution of those who rape, and the lessening of condemnation of the victims, thank you.

I do advocate locking your doors and windows and so on, but that’s ‘general safety’ advice for anyone, to reduce being a crime victim.

I agree that if every single person stayed inside and refused to communicate w/the outside world, they’d drastically reduce their likliehood of being victimized. But I also reject that as any kind of a ‘solution’ for crime.

54

Well, maybe I should clarify. What they do is surround guys in a circle and force them to have sex with them one at a time until the guy is so exausted that he can’t move (or runs away, I can’t remember) and then has to suffer the hoots and derision of the other women since he can’t preform any more.

Considering that the guy has to not only get it up but keep it up for an extended period of time it’s a bit different to the average gang-rape.

I dunno, I’ve been around a LOT of rape victims in my life and there’s just something about the shoe being so thoroughly on the other foot that I find satisfying.

55

I guess I’m wondering why men do it more than how to prevent it and how to prosecute rapists.

Exacting power over someone who is weaker than you is pretty damn wimpy if you ask me.

56

wow, Silentgoldfish, that was the most fucked up, asinine “clarification” I’ve ever read.

57

Um, you’re welcome? What’s wrong?

58

Well, gosh, I’m going to go under the assumption that rape is bad. I know it’s wrong to be supposin’ like that and all, but I figure it’s somewhat safe. We’re under the same tent here, aren’t we? Rape is bad? Stop me before I go any further if I’ve missed a step in my logical train of thought.

So what you’re telling me is that roving bands of women who rape men is ok. It’s ok…no, I’m sorry, that wasn’t your word, it’s “satisfying” to see men get raped. It’s “satisfying” because, since some men somewhere have raped women in the past suddenly any man who gets raped deserves it on behalf of all the female victims out there.

Rape is bad except for male rape which is funny and satisfying. Have I thoroughly summed up your thought process here?

59

Not really.

I was talking about a specific act in a culture that’s a lot more free about sex than most.

All rape is bad. What I was describing is pretty far removed from a typical gang rape in everything but name.

I never read about the men of the islands complaining, or the tourists who went there!

Summation: Rape is bad. Male rape is bad. I find the idea of a culture where the women do what amounts to a parody of a reverse gang rape satisfying.

I guess it’s the whole thought of women getting their own back – and the men involved HAVE to be aroused for it to work, so they’re in for a good time at least.

60

Coming at this from the perspective of someone who hates the very idea of rape (on anyone) with a passion, I don’t think it’s an issue of men “hating” the object of their abuse. It has more to do with exerting their power over someone weaker than them. I suspect that it has more to do with self-doubt and feelings of inadequacy than anything else. They have no other way to affirm their own male power than to exert it violently and forcefully against an unwilling target. In short, it’s more about themselves than the person they hurt… and as such, rape is a selfish act in the extreme.

That’s my guess, anyway… I don’t really know.

Some of them may well hate women, too, but I know for a fact that not all of them do. Misogyny and rape are related in some cases, but they are not synonymous.

And yes, I agree with LolaCocaCola’s earlier assessment, that “Exacting power over someone who is weaker than you is pretty damn wimpy.” Men who do this seem to think it affirms their masculinity, when (to me) it actually denies it.

I come at this from the opposite perspective, though… I’ve had the idea of rape or force so thoroughly ingrained out of me that I find myself trying to learn how to be more forceful in sex. I’ve always been a “gentle” lover, by my wife’s description. Lately, though, she’s expressed interest in more “aggressive” sexual experiences, not quite extending to rape fantasies, but stopping somewhat short of that. I guess after almost twelve years of the gentle variety (for the most part), she’s ready to be “taken” without necessarily giving her express consent. So I’ve had to re-learn my own sexual tendencies in order to help satisfy her new tastes.

I bring this up to point out that aggressive sexaul behavior is not always a sign of hatred towards women. In my case, learning to be aggressive with my wife is a sign of love for her, not hatred. This is not meant to justify rape in any way, but only to offer a different perspective. Not all men find aggressive sex as easy as Lola seems to think, and it doesn’t always mean what she thinks it means.

I’m not offended by her generalizations about men, but I am disappointed by it. Asking “why men hate women so much” is not helpful to this sort of discussion when it is based on demonstrably false principles.

Anyway… carry on with the statistics.