[QUOTE=CrazyCatLady]
Trust does not mean turning a blind eye to situations that appear to be sketchy. I think if I was crashing over some other girls house every weekend, my girlfriend is perfectly justified in questioning why (provided its a girl I’ve been seeing for some length of time. )
:rolleyes: Oh that’s what I want in a realationship. A girl I’m not having sex with who keeps me up all night with her yapping.
Nicest? Nope, last thing I want if I’m in the same bed with a guy is a lot of talking until I finally pretend to be asleep to get 'em to shut up. If it’s someone I’m attracted to, I want action. If it’s someone I’m not, then my reason for being in bed is to sleep, not to have my ear talked off.
That’s so easy to say, but it is very hard to do. If you are in love with a person, you can’t simply erase all your feelings and go away. It is always painful.
Nice try. You get 2 points for effort, but only .5 for actual content of backpaddling. Deduction for trying to pin it on me and using caps. All in all: .5
You label a guy who wants more from a relationship as being horny, as if that’s all women are to men: a friend you can fuck.
A single guy, feeling lonely and wanting a girlfriend is by your own definition H O R N Y, or he’d be content with just a friend.
And that sure is asinine.
You’re not just talking about the OP, either, since you took a general sentence about lonely guys, made by tdn and inserted horny in bold letters.
Which is downright ignorant. I do hope you will benefit from your stay at this board, it looks like you need it.
Which means, from a certain unadvisable perspective, that guy X is indeed better than guy Z when judging compatibility with you. I know it doesn’t make guy Z a terrible person, but you absolutely cannot remove the value judgment there. It exists. It’s not based around how good a person he is, how wealthy, how smart, how funny, etc., and he most certainly should not take it personally, but it’s a mistake to deny it isn’t there. As far as compatibility is concerned, guy X is better in some ineffable way, and there’s no getting around that fact.
When guys break off the friendship without telling the girl that it’s because it hurts too much, that’s piss poor communication. And when girls end the relationship by saying it isn’t “right” and not elaborating, that can be poor communication, too.
I’ve been told that I’m a good man, and that she knew the way I felt for her, but that that didn’t matter. She wished that it did, but it didn’t. It wasn’t there, and my feelings for her and my being a good person weren’t enough. And let me tell you, that was a hell of a lot better to go through than another situation when I was told I was being dumped not because I wasn’t “good enough” but because I wasn’t “right”, with no further explanation.
I know enough now to get that terms as emotionally loaded as these shouldn’t be taken at face value, and I can’t blame her for not knowing the same. But clearer communication would’ve helped me, and so I make every effort to speak honestly and clearly, and to point out that just because you’ve told him that he isn’t “right” for you doesn’t necessarily mean that he understands what you’ve said.
I so don’t understand women.
Neither do I but it doesn’t matter because she’s making it up. Women want us men to think that they think like that, but they really don’t.
I know. And the same goes for men. Doesn’t change a thing. Take me or leave me. But if the choice is “take me”, you must realize the only available version comes with friends attached. There’s no friendless model on sale. And trying to remove the friends option manually will likely result in making me unoperable.
Perhaps it’s not “unusually” controling. But I happen to think this common conception that a relationship naturally involves control, jealousy, suspicions, etc… is very unhealthy. That’ s fundamentally an issue of trust. If you don’t trust me, then why the hell do you want to stay with me? If you want to deprive me from what makes me happy (my friends, in this case, but it would equally apply to attend soccer matches, if I had the slightest interest in soccer), how can you tell you care for me? You’re only caring for you.
Of course, if I spend all my spare time with a female friend (or playing video games, or anything else) and only manage to see you every other week, you have every right to question my interest in you. But in this case also, the most sensible thing to do would be to dump me (or tell me that we perhaps we should only stay friends ), rather than trying to change my behavior/feelings, which probably won’t get you anywhere.
Knocking wood, until now only one woman played the jealousy card with me, some years ago. For instance, a female friend (and ex) was precisely crashing at my place, and my girlfriend paid us two visits during the evening, put a tantrum the second time, and called in a number of times at late hours, ruining a night with a close friend who lived long away and that I had not seen for a long time. The “explanation”, the following day, was the first time in years I lost my temper. We nearly broke up over this issue.
I don’t think this behavior has something to do with gender. It’s at least as common with guys.
I assume that you meant women are suspicious because if they were alone with a guy, they would cheat on their boyfriend/husband, hence assume that said boyfriend/husband or other women would do the same.
If it’s what you mean, maybe in some cases. But not necessarily. I’m convinced the girlfriend I was refering to above, for instance, didn’t cheat on me nor intended to (Of course, I might be wrong, but I strongly doubt it, especially since we’re still regularily in touch, and she would have told me by now). She’s definitely a “one-man-at-a-time” girl. She just can’t sem to be attracted by anybody else when she’s romantically involved with someone, even casually. So, I don’t think she was projecting her own way of thinking on me and my firend, which would precisely have prevented her from being jealous.
True. And if Lizard’s OP and subsequent posts had been about his heartbreak, his search to understand how this situation came to me, and by god some fucking introspection, I’d be charitable and compassionate.
In the absence of any more insight than his posts here, his attitude is one of indictment of all women as a class because he appears to be taken advantage of a woman who can’t or won’t tell him no. And so he goes on, spending his “treasure” :rolleyes: and bitching and generally being an ass. (And, I might add, showing a blatant misunderstanding of women. Which reeeeeeeelly sets him up well for the relationship he claims he wants… again => :rolleyes: )
We have three potential sitautions here:
Both parties are comfortable with a platonic relationship
Both parties are comfortable with a romantic relationship
One party wants to change the nature of the relationship, the other party doesn’t. I think all of us agree that this is a train wreck waiting to happen.
All the yelling and whining in these threads comes down to two opinions:
Why does s/he want to change things when I’m perfectly happy with the way they are?
Why does s/he think things should stay the same, when I really want it to change?
Give Lizard a little credit here. From the tone of his post, he seems to at least have approached the woman, rather than just hanging around her for years, hoping that she eventually proclaims her love for him.
Is he self-centered? Sure he is – he just had his heart (or his glands) ripped out and handed back to him. It’s really hard to see past the end of your nose when it’s bleeding. How many of you get pissed off when you’re turned down for a job, for crying out loud? And sex is a lot more basic than work on Maslow’s hierarchy of needs.
Speaking as a former guy (I’m married and a father, and my “guy” days are long past) I have the following observations:
Men and women normally meet in platonic settings (school, work, group activities, etc.) Therefore, the default relationship is platonic;
If either party wants to change from the platonic, they have to do something about it;
Action always risks refusal.
For the rejector, nothing has changed. The relationship merely stays the same. For the proposer, everything has changed. S/he is already prepared to have a different relationship.
[CrazyCatLady]
A guy friend is most decidedly not a boyfriend you don’t sleep with. The relationships are completely different. If you don’t comprehend that, you don’t define friendship and romantic relationships the same way that many women do, and I don’t think anyone can ever adequately explain it to you.
[Lizard]
What they want is unknown, until they’ve already rejected they guys’ advance.
Both statements are true, and irreconcilable, at least until someone wears a sign that says “I am not now, nor will I ever be, interested in having sex with you.”
Methinks the asshole doth protest too much. Your smarmy attitude and attempts at humor are lame and pathetic. My stay at this board? It isn’t hard to see why you’re defending boorish behavior, it seems to be a subject near and dear to your heart.
Oh, I’m thinking I should probably stay out of this, but honestly I’ve been where the OP was (only I’m a woman, not a man). Women aren’t the only ones who give out the friends line…the guy in question gave the same bit to me, only we were gonna be “buds” instead of friends. It does hurt to hang around someone you have feelings for who does not reciprocate those feelings. Lizard , if you don’t want to be just friends with her, then don’t. You don’t have to. And I don’t think it’s rude or arrogant of you to make that choice.
Furthermore (and it’s already been stated by several posters), I think by her non-committal bit you’ve described, she’s already said she’s not interested. It was a wimpy way out, but it sounds like she’s already made up her mind. And, honestly, do you need a friend who can’t be upfront and direct with you? You tried to tell her how you feel and initiate a conversation, and in my book, that makes you cool.
And side note, I think most women (and men) know EXACTLY what it feels like to be rejected. I’ve met very few people who haven’t had their hearts and hopes stomped on. It hurts at the time, but it makes it that much sweeter when you find a relationship that works.
Have you two met?
Sure, I’m boorish, lame and pathetic.
But that doesn’t really address the subject, which is: You think that a man should stick to being friends if no other option is available, and if he wants something more froma a relationship, then shame on him. He’s just being H O R N Y, which you treat as if it is some kind of desease.
You’re coming off as the worst kind of 60’s shrill militant feminist. I might be mistaken, but anyone who tries to perpeptuate the myth that men are controlled by their pene, deserves scorn. It’s an outdated, simplistic version of gender sciences, barely useful for catch phrase for fridge magnets.
I’ve called you on a simplistic an stupid attitude. Your reply, so far, has zero semantic content.
I have wondered about the “just friends” comment, too, and it makes me go back and question how men and women define “friends.”
Typical Guy Friends. Low-maintenance. Once in a while you call him up and say “hey, didja see the Packers game? Yeah? Cool. What are you doing? Yeah, me neither.” When you’re putting together the company softball league you think to yourself “hey, he’s not too fat. Oh, but he’s got that wife thing. I could call him anyway and just—ooh, a Cup of Noodles. I’ll have lunch instead.” A Guy Friend is the person you can get together with and discuss Soldier of Fortune for six hours and it would never occur to you to find out that your best friend just got divorced and had his head surgically removed. You might consider calling him if he a) has a tool you must borrow, b) is able-bodied enough to help you move furniture, or c) hasn’t returned those rabbit ears he borrowed from you seven years ago. This, ladies of the Straight Dope, is a deep guy friendship. Don’t ask why, it just is. You can put it down for four months, or four years, and pick it back up any time as long as you’re not chasing the same skirt.
I’m not sure where Typical Girl Friends fall in comparison to this grand institution, because I’m not a woman, but I suspect there’s a strong vein of Comfort Each Other when Something Goes Awry, a generous helping of Share Secrets, a dollop of Compare Shoes And/Or Men, a respectable portion of Giving Good Advice, and sometimes a dash of That Bitch, How Dare She.
Compared to how I know that I behave when there’s a girl I want (that is, I focus on her, think about her, put her on the front burner so to speak) I don’t generally relish the idea of moving her to a Friend position on the back burner.
Perhaps one of you would care to enlighten us about Typical Girl Friends so we can, in the interests of relationship science, compare terms? I suspect most of the miscommunication here is because we (the guys) would likely not wish a woman to be a friend on the Guy Friend level; we don’t fully understand what kind of friends you wish us to be.
Okay, yes, I’m being a little facetious. It’s all in good fun. (I hope.)
Holy wakasaka, Kimstu, I think I’ve gone to sleep in the bed of your long-separated twin sister several times over… :eek:
You’ve “called me” on something have you? You really do see yourself in some kind of position of authority don’t you? Talking about my “stay” here and making snap judgements on what I think by twisting words making assumptions.
I said he should have to stick with being her friend? Cite? She made her choice, now he has a choice to make. Be her friend, don’t be her friend. I couldn’t care less which he chooses and never even IMPLIED that he had to be her friend. In fact, the first thing I thought after reading the OP was “then don’t be her friend if it bothers you so. Problem solved.” How dare you say that’s what I think like that’s fact when I’ve insinuated nothing of the sort.
And gee, I’m terribly concerned with how I’m “coming off” to you and find it incredibly laughable that you liken me to a 60’s shrill militant feminist. If you think I’m a feminist, I’d hate to see your reaction (or maybe I’d love to see your reaction) to a real feminist. It would be one of those priceless things MasterCard is always advertising about.
You took a statement I made, relating a statement by someone else to the OP, and label it my statement for ALL men. And you think that I have a simplistic and stupid attitude??!?? WTF? They said how they were surprised at the treatment of horny men on this board. When I replied about HORNY, I didn’t think I needed to spell out “In this CASE, you mean horny.” I didn’t think there was actually such a simple soul out there that would think that I meant “All men are horny all the time.” and take off running with a bunch of insane drivel. Pardon me if you needed that spelled out for you, in the future I’ll break it down to simpler terms.
Lizard’s opening statement was about how a girl wanted to be just friends, brought up sex and then asks for the guys to help him out (come on brothas, come back me up!) by asking about having cake and eating it too. There might be more to the story (as I’m sure there is) but the OP makes it sound like he wanted her, she didn’t want him, and how dare she? That’s beyond childish. He doesn’t come off like a “lonely” guy as one person painted him. He comes off either as a horny twit or a pathetic whiner.
My one true love and I have been together about 2 years.
Before that, we were close friends for damn near 14 years. We saw other people. We hung out together, went to movies, ballgames, amusement parks, water skiing and camping, etc… And we were always there for each other.
You know,* friends*.
But when we took that realtionship to next level, we knew it was a risk.
Women suck.
But so do men.
And yet we still procreate.
Go figure.
By yosemite:* “But as far as I can see, the status has already been determined. She’s not interested. Anyone who hems and haws and strings a guy along for that long is not worth wasting time over. She should shit or get off the pot.”*
Nicely put! Also, a guy who allows himself to be strung along for that length of time is not seeing things clearly.
Originally Posted by msmith537:
“Oh that’s what I want in a realationship. A girl I’m not having sex with who keeps me up all night with her yapping”
SNORT!
But on a related note, here’s a quote I’ve heard attributed the philosopher René Descartes, circa early 1600’s: “A man can seduce any woman he wants to. He simply must be willing to sit up with her until four O’clock in the morning, listening while she tells her troubles.”