This is all you can think of that you would do with a woman friend? Wow.
Wait a sec. Can we get back to the OP?
(Okay, I’ve quickly scrolled through the second page of this thread, and haven’t seen a response from Lizard on this question. So, forgive me if I missed it.)
Lizard, my opinion about your rant rests with an answer to Cheesesteak’s post. So, if you could please give us more information, I will know whether to blast you or her.
Thank you in advance for your quick response.
It was said before, but you’re not gonna convince manys guys of this. And that’s because the “not good enough” interpretation is, from a certain perspective, accurate.
There’s some crashy mish-mash, some combination of chemicals, chemistry, whatever you wanna call it, and it’s RIGHT or it’s not. Well, a guy who’s fallen for you really, really wants to be RIGHT, right? Only he’s not. Not necessarily because he’s not attractive, or not funny, or not smart, but something’s off, some little piece is missing, and it just doesn’t click, never can, never will. Even if you don’t consciously understand the things that make him not right, they exist, and he doesn’t measure up. That’s being not right, sure, but that’s also him being “not good enough” in that specific sense, even if you think the world of him.
It’s not how you would descibe it, I know, but again, coming from a certain perspective, it’s an accurate way of assessing the situation. There are guys out there who are RIGHT, who do have it, whatever it is. These guys make the cut. They measure up in some mysterious way. Hell, they’re not always good people, but you can’t deny, they are good in the sense that our poor lovesick young man will never be.
Guys prefer the “not good enough” interpretation because it reflects the way they feel. I promise you, I didn’t pick up the phrase from some secret guy handbook. I invented it myself, independent of the rest of the gender, only to discover much later that it was already widely in use. When you feel worse than terrible, it seems like the right phrase. It’s not a particularly helpful way of looking at the situation, I admit, but that doesn’t make it incorrect.
I try not to use the phrase anymore unless I’m making a point, but I can completely understand it. It feels right to say. Part of that is simple self-martyrdom, sure, but part is the cold, hard truth. There is a set of “good” traits out there, traits that are RIGHT for you, even if they’re mysterious and unknown, and the lovesick sucker, for whatever reason, doesn’t have those traits. He’s not right, AND he’s not good enough. Both at once.
Sometimes I think that if we were a more civilized society, sex ed would include a very intensive vocabularly lesson.
Well, you made some very good points. And we girls do understand that that’s how it may FEEEEEL to a guy. But that’s part of the reason so many of us are in here saying, from a woman’s perspective “No, it’ s not that guy X is ‘better’ than guy Z, it’s purely that one guy is a match for us, has that chemistry, and the other guy doesn’t”.
It has no bearing on his looks, wealth, personality, worth or sexual prowess. The sooner people of both sexes learn and believe that it’s NOT PERSONAL, the better off they’ll be.
Dating sucks like this for all of us. Not just guys. Everyone gets rejected, it’s part of the whole being human thing, YOU (collective you) personally are not being singled out.
It is, but the air is so thin I get a little woozy sometimes. It almost looks like you’re on horseback.
Actually, the quotes I compiled pretty much state exactly that, despite whatever backpedaling you wish to attempt.
And yet that qualifier didn’t appear until you made this post.
Please quote where I portrayed women as heartless, selfish bitches. I think you are projecting sentiments not actually expressed. I will gladly clarify.
P.S: Thanks for calling me “Ellis.” Too often I’m quoted with my full alias, which sounds too formal to me for some reason.
Is someone feeling a little guilty about something? YOU are the only one making asinine assumptions. I said NOTHING about ALL men. I’m talking about the person in the OP. Period. YOU are the one who put this on all men. That’s on you pal, not me.
He is the one brought sex into the discussion. Oh yes, I’m aware that he said no one is obligated to sleep with anyone else, but the insinuation is there. “How dare you not be attracted to me when I’m attracted to you.” Is he ready to date every woman who is attracted to him, even if the attraction isn’t mutual? If not, that makes him hypocrite.
If a woman wants a male friend that’s wanting her cake and eating it too? Pardon me if I don’t weep for his state of singlehood. With his attitude, I’m just not surprised.
Coldfire nailed it on the head. Those women that I know, but I only consider as friends, fall into one of those three categories: unavailable, nutjobs or ugly.
Why you think there’s something wrong with the OP’s attitude? He is seeing that girl for 2 months and she won’t make up her mind about the status of their relationship.
I would go on and say that the problem is with the girl’s attitude. She probably doesn’t want to go in an intimate relationship with Lizard, but she cannot muster the courage to reject him.
I sure hope she would, or it could be a deal breaker. I’m not going to be controlled by a girlfriend to the extend that I couldn’t go out with a female friend (or male friend, for that matter). Friends are highly important, and I’m not going to write them off because I’m romantically involved with someone. Regardless of my friend’s gender.
And I certainly might want to go out with them without my SO. If she didn’t accept that it would mean either that she thinks I must do everything/spend all my time with her or that she’s jealous/controling and wants to keep an eye on me. And I would equally dislike both.
I occasionnally do so. When I’m single and also when I’ve a SO. It’s a matter of trust. With a couple of my female friends, I’ve even occasionnally slept in the same bed for convenience.
I’m not fond of “bachelor parties” at the first place, so it wouldn’t apply.
Dog80: Those women that I know, but I only consider as friends, fall into one of those three categories: unavailable, nutjobs or ugly.
“Nutjobs” or “ugly”? With a friend like you, those women hardly need enemies, do they?
You’re perfectly entitled to the opinion that a woman (even a friend of yours) is a little too unstable or eccentric for you to have a good relationship with her, or that you’re just not sexually attracted to the way she looks. But IMO friends do not call friends “nutjobs” or “ugly”.
That’s cool. The sad truth, however, is that there is a large population of women who would feel threatened by their boyfriend having a close friendship with another woman. I can understand that maybe the women of the SDMB represent an unusually enlightened cross-section of the female population. But to think that it is rare, or unusually controlling, for a random woman to be unhappy about her man’s close friendship to another woman is simply out of touch.
I have my suspicions at to why this is, but as it would not paint all women as saints, I would probably be taken to task for it.
I’m 100% with you on the “ugly”. But “nutjob”? Do all your friends tread on eggshells around you? Who hasn’t been told by their friends their crazy?
clair: With a couple of my female friends, I’ve even occasionnally slept in the same bed for convenience.
Heck yeah. The next nicest thing to sharing a bed with a lover is sharing it with a good friend (of either gender) that you can just yack away with until you both get too tired to string two words together anymore. And it doesn’t have to be someone you’re completely unattracted to, either; it’s fun to have the passing thought “so-and-so is such a sweetie and pretty hot too; if things were different, then hee-hee, maybe…” And then you let it pass and go on with what you were saying.
If you really understand what you want in the friendship, you’re not going to get thrown off balance just because you spend some time together unchaperoned. And if your spouse/SO is able to understand that and trust you, they’re not going to wig out about it either.
Not saying anybody has to do it that way who doesn’t want to. Just saying that the people who take it for granted that you can’t really have an opposite-gender friend, or you can’t be really comfortable with them, or it only works if they’re definitely unattractive or unavailable, are missing a big part of the picture.
Sorry! I was just exagerating. I should have put a smilie like that 
in the end of my post.
Ellis: Who hasn’t been told by their friends their crazy?
Kidding around and saying “you’re crazy” is fine, IMO. Saying “I don’t think we’d relate to each other very well if we were going out” or “we’re too different to have a good relationship” or something like that is also fine. Saying in all seriousness that your friend is too much of a “nutjob” for you to date, though, sounds pretty harsh to me. Especially when coupled with another epithet like “ugly”, it doesn’t come across as an affectionate way of ribbing your wild and wacky friend: it comes across as a straightforward expression of contempt. YMMV.
Dog80: Sorry! I was just exagerating. I should have put a smilie like that 
in the end of my post.
Thanks, that sounds much nicer! If it’s not clear that you’re just kidding, though, it does sound pretty cold. “ when you say that!” 
Fair enough, we just relate to our friends differently. Nothing wrong with that. As to whether the originally quoted person was being harsh or not, neither of us will ever know. I see it as a meaningless tangent, in any case.
I already said I was joking! :o
But as far as I can see, the status has already been determined. She’s not interested. Anyone who hems and haws and strings a guy along for that long is not worth wasting time over. She should shit or get off the pot.
I think she basically has rejected him, only he’s letting himself be strung along. Shame on her for being gutless, shame on him for staying around. Cut her loose.
I seem to remember (in the hazy recesses of my mind) some thread, oh, 3, 4 years ago, where Lizard (either he started the OP or was a main contributor) was bitching about girls dating a guy and not having sex. My memory may be hazy and maybe I can dig up the thread, but who knows, it may have been lost in the Missed Content era.
Anyway, I remember that several of us told him that dating was all about learning about the other person, and whether or not you “clicked.” There was nothing wrong with dating someone for a while and then deciding that it wasn’t working for you. And if that meant that the girl (or guy) has to put out by the third date or they’re out, then that’s what it means. Or if that means breaking up with someone because they keep on pestering for sex before you’re ready or believe is appropriate, that’s fine too.
My memory may be hazy, but it seemed like Lizard (and other fellows) were complaining because they’d go out with these women, wine and dine them, spend money on them, but the girls wouldn’t “put out.” And there was much bitching and complaining about all the money that these guys spent on these girls.
And a lot of us couldn’t figure out what there was to complain about. Just break up with her if you’re not happy. That’s what dating is—to find out if a relationship is going to work out. Nobody is obligated to have sex with somebody just because they are dating. If both of you have different ideas about when sex should start, then have a discussion and resolve it, or end the relationship. But don’t keep on dating someone and then bitching about all the money and energy that you’re spending on them while not getting the bootie that you desire or somehow feel you’re entitled to.
However, some suggestion of interest (a kiss, romantic hug, something) should happen. If that’s not happening after several dates, then most people agree that it’s dead in the water.
This is a little hijack, I know, but really not all that much. If someone is being wishy-washy or ambivalent, then you have your answer. Who wants someone who is so lukewarm, anyway? If they are someone you care about, don’t burn all bridges (don’t cuss 'em out ;)), but start seeking out other people to date, or at least become less emotionally invested in making an unclear, uncertain, ambivalent “relationship” work.
Agreed.
But you shouldn’t also try to blame all women or ask why women want to have their cake or ask when women grow up.
Because if you’re being taken advantage of for months, that’s your problem. And if this is happening to you repeatedly then that’s your pathology.
And if you can’t or are unwilling to accept that women - like men - fall on a spectrum from saint to sociopath and consider maybe the problem is you then you’re just a dick.
(Lizard, can you hear me?)