Why don’t you eat better (now that you lift weights)?

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You can’t outrun a bad diet, is a truism… so if you eat in a piss-pour manner, there is no way you can compensate for that in a gym.

So I try to create a thread about (just slightly) better eating to complement the - great - information on this thread (which I personally consider one of those “internet-nuggets-of-great-info”):

One of the great things about the “lift-weight-thread” is … the regulars there (@puzzlegal , @DSeid @Dr_Paprika @Moriarty @Sage_Rat ), show and discuss quite eloquently that even the most miniscule physical activities (walk 2 flights of stairs instead of taking the lift) has measurable effect.

You don’t have to spent hours in a gym to see health benefits

The goal of THIS thread is to do the same for “eat just a tiny bit better” will improve your life, without resorting to eat only rabbit-food.

In my mid-40ies I started Intermittent Fasting (IF) …

sounds pretty significant, doesn’t it ….

Nahh … I just stopped eating at around 8.00pm (pro-tip: brush your teeth then, so you have a good reason to not snack again) … and I never was much of a breakfast guy … so I - once or twice a week did not eat before lunch - which is 2pm where I live (black coffee and unsweetened tea is OK) … and doing the math I had already 16 hours of Fasting in me (felt like cheating, b/c 10 or so hours of sleep were “free” hours).

About a decade later, I still do this (I moved up to 5-6 days per week, as I no longer have any hunger before noon). I sometimes get job-related breakfast invites - there I eat normal, b/c … hey, why not munch down a couple of danish/croissants/muffins…right?

Long story short: Being in my 50ies, I still use the same size Levi’s I did as a young lad (w30L32) …

Again, my advise - do what you THINK works for you (for me calorie-counting and eating salads wont work) … and do it every now and then … eating better is def. not a diet (that you start in jan and end in june), but a change in lifestyle that you keep doing.

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Hey, why not try this TODAY (if inclined to give IF a go)

My advice would be to cut down on or preferably eliminate snacking altogether. Snacking is mindless eating because you’re bored, you’re tired, it’s a certain time of day, or you’re watching TV. When I did Intermittent Fasting three years ago, I realized snacking accounted for nearly 25% of my total daily calories. My first step in IF was to skip breakfast, and at the same time, I also stopped snacking, whether they were healthy snacks or not. After I finished dieting, I never went back to snacking, and when someone offers me a snack, I always say, “No, thanks. I’m trying to live healthier.”

My diet is not that great, so any changes will be beneficial. I’m interested in nutrition and not crashing in the afternoon if I can help it.

Since returning to the office I’ve been working on things I can graze on throughout the day rather than going out for lunch. Then taking my lunch break to go for a short walk. The other side of this, though, is that people are constantly bringing in sweets, so there’s no way to control my environment. I’m trying to find a new normal that is better than the old normal.

Little doubt than even a little bit better on the nutrition front makes a difference, unfortunately I don’t think it has the same amazing dose response curve that exercise does?

Still I suspect fairly small decisions can have outsized impacts. It is more how big of an impact even a little exercise has.

Eating at home or packed lunch all but say twice a week. Cutting out added sugar drinks and juices. Taking portion sizes half of what you think you would eat and waiting five minutes before taking more. Moving towards half of each plate being vegetables and fruits. So on.

When we give advice the rule of thumb is to help the family pick just two or three changes to make at a time. More and nothing gets done. It overwhelms. The cutting out added sugar drinks is consistently the biggest impact for the least effort.

My understanding is that the Mediterranean diet is the best diet for health.

However, I think just increasing the amount of peanuts in your diet reduces death rates almost as much as totally revamping your diet (20-22% for peanuts vs 25-30% for eating Mediterranean).

The thing is, I don’t know how much these things work in isolation. There are a lot of supposed health foods that are good for you due to the phytochemicals, macronutrients and micronutrients they have.

Coffee, blueberries, pomegranate, peanuts, green tea, whole grains, protein supplements, etc

I have no idea how much adding a little of that into a shitty diet reduces morbidity and mortality vs totally revamping your diet.

We have to be honest and admit that diet and exercise have a strong morality component to them. People who eat poorly and don’t exercise are seen as sinful (gluttonous, slothful) and they are supposed to amend for these sins by eating a diet of modesty and a life of activity. So we can’t really have a discussion about the health impacts of diet and exercise w/o admitting that we unconsciously place so much moral judgment on these things, which makes it hard to have an unbiased discussion about health issues w/o always coming back to ‘you have to amend for the sins of being slothful and gluttonous by revamping your lifestyle’

Intermittent fasting by comparison triggers cellular repair mechanisms in your body. I don’t know if there is any other way to trigger that.

The specific study you may be referencing was actually both being “Mediterranean diets” - one supplemented with peanuts the other provided olive oil. They both worked. And the other peanut data is observational correlations. But still. I like the thought.

It is more useful I think to have a simple goal of something TO DO than what to NOT DO. Avoiding sweet beverages, added sugar, ultraprocessed foods, is change with big impact, but it comes across as deprivation. Eat more low or unsalted peanuts and tree nuts OTOH is a positive action. And that positive action has knock on results. They are highly satiating. Someone who makes the decision to snack on those peanuts and tree nuts will, without thinking about it, displace some amount of crap from their diet with it. Eat more vegetables and fruits also is, I think, easier to achieve than resolving to eat less of something … but it also will displace some amount of crap.

Achievable positive goals work better I think.

I asked my AI about the usual advice that you almost universally should drink water only (maybe, at most, adding in electrolytes) versus an alternative of rotating between options like:

  • Water
  • Coconut water (no sugar added)
  • Fruit kvass (e.g. <0.5% ABV fermented drinks)
  • Tea/coffee with allulose and monk fruit

Not sure if it was just humoring me but it seemed to prefer the flavored drink list. Any opinions from you humans?

One thing that I would probably recommend for everyone is olive leaf matcha. Apparently, oleurpein is one of the rare antioxidants with high bioavailability. Most others, while high in the source food, and successful as an antioxidant in a petri dish, don’t really go into the blood stream when consumed orally.

Crashing? Like sudden sleepiness?

It helps if you like cooking, but about ten years ago I adopted the habit of trying to eat very few carbs during the week (I give myself a break at the weekends). So taking out bread, potatoes, pasta and rice, and focusing on white meat, fish and veg. I feel much brighter and healthier as a result, and can keep the weight steady.

I recommend a breakfast of natural greek yogurt, nuts and blueberries to kick start the day and keep hunger at bay til lunchtime. Aside from this, I avoid too much fruit to avoid a sugar spike during the day

Also, making lunch at home avoids buying calorie dense lunches. I typically have salad with baked salmon and boiled egg, maybe some nuts - low carb, good fats, some veggies. Win win

I just want clarify because ISTM that we can easily go down a road of “one simple hack” or alternatively complete dietary pattern shifts.

The goal here is to share nutritional habit decisions that give (ideally have given, personal experience) outsized bang for the buck. Relatively easy to implement with relatively large health impacts, yes?

And I do see the parallel with exercise in that what is relatively easy to implement for some, is a huge ask for others.

Yes. I have a sudden crash pretty much every afternoon in which I get brain fog, fatigue, and depression. It lasts for a few hours. Usually I’m good again by 6pm. I am currently taking a stimulant to push through it which helps but if my diet is having an impact on the severity of that crash I’m definitely up for making a change. But what I eat for lunch varies a lot.

The knee jerk response to that is eating a lunch or snacks that are high in both protein and fiber, and low in added sugar.

Such as Greek yogurt with chia, flax, and/or hemp seeds, maybe with some berries or other fruit.

Or my noshing bag at work: a mix of Costco “heart healthy” nuts with added unsalted peanuts, and from Pete’s, roasted chickpeas, roasted edamame, and some dried fruit.

I’m not a doctor but my understanding is that there can be multiple potential causes of something like this. Diet is certainly possible and something you can test out at home, without much concern since the advice is liable to be “healthy eating”.

Though, I’d caution:

  1. Diet changes can take a long time to start showing meaningful effects. You have to stick with it for multiple months before you can really call a success or failure.
  2. The faster and more dramatic any change that you make, the more your body might resist it. I basically cut out 95% of the sugar in my life a couple of years ago, for example, and ended up suffering through about a 3-4 week brain fog with a mild but unending headache. And, of course, there’s no shortage of anecdotes (and scientific findings) of people trying to crash diet just to rebound back worse than ever to bad eating.

Anyways, I’d probably suggest installing MyFitnessPal and tracking your food/snack/drink intake meticulously for 3 normal days.

If you’re willing to post your info, we can certainly all look through it and make recommendations but we can also tell you what to look for among its numbers.

But you should also try to keep some notes about things like how well you slept, what time you went to sleep, when you were the most active (fitness, wrangling kids, cleaning house, etc.), whether you napped, whether you felt better after a nap, and so on.

If you’re getting up, skipping breakfast, cleaning the house, dealing with the kiddo’s craziness, etc. then it wouldn’t be too surprising if you crash after lunch. But that’s a much different scenario from waking up 5 times in the middle of the night, eating a good diet of yogurt, granola, and fruit in the morning, having a healthy lunch, then suddenly crashing.

Diet matters, but it also matters what the general pattern is of sleep, high activity, overstimulation, understimulation, etc.

How’s your vitamin D level?

Good nutrition, like exercise, is something for which you can nerd out over lots of information, but which doesn’t require a lot of expertise to get right.

Broadly speaking, the food we eat is made up of three macronutrients: protein, carbohydrates, and fats. Many fad diets will encourage eliminating, or maximizing, one or more of these nutrients, but proper nutrition includes all three.

The key is to be identify good quality sources and select from those. People will argue over ratios, but generally speaking, you should eat more carbs than protein, and more protein than fats (perhaps 60%,30%,10%, but as I said this is ripe for debate).

But, again, don’t overthink it. Just use good sources of each macronutrient. You can find plenty of lists online, but generally speaking good foods are natural or minimally processed, and the kinds of old fashioned things that your grandparents would have recognized - things like chicken, beef and fish; grains and potatoes; and fruits and vegetables.

if you want more specifics, consider these general guidelines:

If protein comes from animal products, like beef or chicken, look for a leaner option. It it comes from vegetarian sources (like beans and nuts), just be sure to get some variety.

For carbohydrates, look for fibrous sources. This usually translates to whole grains and fruits and vegetables.

For fats, seek out minimally processed sources; fats get most unhealthy when humans manipulate them. Some good food sources are fish, nuts, and avocados.

Another thing to mention when discussing nutrition is hydration. That doesn’t mean guzzling water; it can be toxic to drink too much. But adding a glass of water to your meals is nutritious.

If you distill your eating down to these basics, you’ve pretty much covered most of what constitutes good nutrition. The key, I believe, is to focus on what you can eat to fuel your body, as opposed to focusing on what you need to eliminate; sure, you should avoid junk food, but the way to do that is to enjoy nutritious food.

The only other tip I’d offer is to replace eating snacks with eating meals. What do I mean? To me, a meal may be very small, but it includes both protein and carbs/fats, whereas a snack is usually just carbs/fats. By adding in the protein, it will help with satiety and portion control (so, in other words, don’t just eat an apple. Add some cheese, or peanut butter. Voila: more complete nutrition)

Now, since this thread was inspired by the workout thread, bodybuilders would tweak the information above somewhat:

Since protein is necessary for building muscle, they tend to consume more protein than most people (the usual rule of thumb is 1 gram per pound of bodyweight). Many medical professionals will tell you this is too high, but the bodybuilders do put on a lot of muscle.

In part because of the need to consume a lot of protein, and in an effort to maintain consistent blood sugar levels, bodybuilders tend to eat frequently: 6 times a day is the norm. As I said, these would be “complete meals”, usually every 3 hours or so.

That’s what I do (although I am far from a big bodybuilder): 6 meal spaced pretty evenly throughout the day. And I eat quite basic: a typical one is a bowl of steel cut oatmeal, 2-3 ounces of top round steak, and an orange.

My goal is a high protein, high fiber diet. Each meal has some fiber source (I eat a lot of fruit and vegetables), and my protein typically comes from beef, chicken, eggs, and yogurt (I also have some protein powder during the day, and my post workout meal is a bowl of cereal with milk).

I should note that I certainly fall off the wagon occasionally: when I do, though, I tend to skip meals - I won’t eat until lunchtime, which ends up being my only real meal of the day - and I feast on candy and soda. Not a good way to be.

Lifting weights also triggers that mechanism. Nutrition and exercise really do work in tandem.

Resistance training as a modulator of autophagy in skeletal muscle: A systematic review of molecular mechanisms and adaptive responses - ScienceDirect .

I’m having trouble finding the study, but here is an example.

Mediterranian diet reduces death risk by 23%

But supposedly eating a handful of peanuts a day reduces death risk by 20%.

Sophisticated data analysis methods were used to rule out other factors that might have accounted for the mortality benefits. For example, the researchers found that individuals who ate more nuts were leaner, less likely to smoke, and more likely to exercise, use multivitamin supplements, consume more fruits and vegetables, and drink more alcohol. However, analysis was able to isolate the association between nuts and mortality independently of these other factors.

As far as minor changes to improve health, one thing I’ve tried to start doing is eating a whey protein shake with each major meal. That can increase satiety and lower the blood glucose spike with a meal. Its not hard to do and doesn’t involve restricting myself to a small variety of foods.

Even the best attempts to control for confounders may miss some. It is highly suggestive yes. It holds even across cultures. Including controlling for meat intake, important because those who eat more nuts tend to eat less meat.

Here’s the one I was thinking you were referencing-

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1800389

Actually experimental. Low fat vs Mediterranean with olive oil or with nuts.

the hazard ratio was 0.69 (95% confidence interval [CI], 0.53 to 0.91) for a Mediterranean diet with extra-virgin olive oil and 0.72 (95% CI, 0.54 to 0.95) for a Mediterranean diet with nuts, as compared with the control diet.

I like where this thread is going to … I was hoping for that …

LET’S TALK FIBER, shall we?

Storytime (quite boring, probably TMI)

As mentioned upthread i do IF for a decade or so and I am doing well weight wise … BUT …. I had some bloodwork done recently and my Cholesterol is slightly elevated … (most of it is explained by a very high HDL (=good Chol.) score … offsetting a slightly elevated LDL (=bad Chol.).

And in hindsight, I knew, that while my overall calorie intake is good, the quality of my calories wasn’t … I live in HO, and often lunch is toasted ham/cheese sandwiches or frozen burgers or some such (not too complex to prepare). So, in short quantity=OK, quality=not so OK.

Now time to make some ajustments for me: My diet was pretty high in carbs with high caloric index (blood-sugar rollercoaster). So googling/chatgpting around, I landed on (my lack of ) FIBER ingestion.

So, now - instead of ham/grilled cheese sandwiches in white bread, I prepare avocado-sandwiches on high fiber whole-grain bread and I also supplement with Psyllium powder (extremely concentrated form of natural fiber). So now my (soluble) fiber intake is around 15 grams (where it should be) and boy, there are really a lot of good things happening:

TMI / possibly NSFW / “potty” related so spoilered:

  • stool consistency is very noticeable (completely standardized - neither too fast nor too slow, neither too soft nor too hard)
  • frequency: very consistent (def. daily - which before was not always the case)
  • the “act” of a Nr.2 is now very easy and consistent as well, you can tell the fiber is doing its job. If you ever prepared Psyllium powder (converts liquids into gel - think wallpaper-glue) you know what I mean… it seems my GI-tract is lined with gel and stuff happens with great ease and enthusiasm.
  • lots of other fringe benefits: things are less smelly, bloaty and less messy, etc…
  • one way to describe this: it feels like a 200.000miles engine after a complete tune-up … everything is so much smoother :wink:

A few words of caution:

  • Ease into Psyllium powder (start slow and low) and give your guts a chance to adapt for a week or so … and more is not better.
  • It does not taste “great” (reminds me of wet-cardboard or dry grass or so) … but it is “ok-ish”, taste wise (I use it with citrus-water or yoghurt)
  • I use it 1 hour before eating, (a full tea-spoon dissolved in water) … and that gel-like water really fills your stomach, making it quite full while providing basically no calories. You will not over-eat after it. Flush with more water.
  • If you exaggerate with the P-powder, its like preparing gypsum-plaster (it will clog you up if you do stupid things with it) … just put one small spoon into water and observe what happens over the next 1-2 min … extrapolate from that
  • My other half of fiber comes from high-fiber bread, full grain rice, avocados and other sources
  • I feel my eating now is less of a blood-sugar high-low-rollercoaster
  • it seems that 90% of the population does less than the recommended quantity of fiber.
  • No real extra cost associated (1kg Psy-powder was $30 or so and will last roughly 6 months).
  • Check which whole-grain bread has the highest % of “soluble fiber” … the one I gravitated to, has 2.5g soluble fiber for 2 slices of bread. So eating 3 avocado sandwiches x day drives you straight into your fiber-minimum. Add a pear, apple or banana and you are already fiber-golden.

So TL;DR: see if you can replace white bread/cheese with whole grain bread and throw in an avocado - and if you add a tablespoon of Psyll. you already improved the quality of your ingestion to a good degree and will def. notice “pleasant surprises” within a week or so.

So give this a try and see if it works for you - it really is a low hanging fruit.

I eat a well balanced diet 5 days a week and exercise, including weight training.

But I go off the rails on Friday and Saturday. Complete fast on Sunday. My huge guilty sin is I love to sit at a bar and eat shit I otherwise would not eat. Deep fried everything. But I only do that 1 night a week and 1 night a week the wife makes homemade pizza or something else that isn’t so healthy.

So far this plan had worked out fine. I’m 6’2 and 215lbs.