Several years ago, I was in a similar situation to the one Isabelle describes in this thread, although mine was a bit milder. In my case a coworker who was separated, but still married made a pass at me after trying to talk me into breaking off a long distance relationship. We were friends, he knew I had rather strong moral standards, and I assumed he did, if only because he was also a minister. I turned him down because I don’t date married men, and by my standards, “married” includes separated. Quite frankly, it never occurred to me to think about whether he was attractive or not. Over the next several months, he continued to express his interest, while I toned down and eventually broke off the friendship because I didn’t want to give him the impression I was encouraging him in any way shape or form. He kept this up until I went to his supervisor after his supervisor asked to help out in his department for a day. Since I would be working directly for him, and this was a week after he’d blown in my ear for the second time, I wanted his supervisor to know I hadn’t gone nuts if I had to tell him off.
My question for the men among the Teeming Millions and any women who might have a theory about this is why do men like him and the one Isabelle’s dealing with continue to make passes at women who’ve said they’re not interested and who’ve tried to make it clear that we want them to leave us alone? Do they think they can annoy us into going to bed with them? Do they think that after they’ve asked for the 101st time, we might have a radical change of opinion and go out with them? When a warm friendship has turned to ice, do they really think they can warm us back up?
I’m afraid I don’t understand this at all, and I’m very curious about why it happens. Any ideas?
It’s the “conquest” mentality, I think, Siege. Personally, I couldn’t enjoy being with a woman who finally gave in after repeated attempts by me to get her into a relationship. I’d have respect issues as a result.
I’m afraid i can’t help you too much. I’ve generally been rather pragmatic about the whole rejection thing, and when it happens i tend to get my dissappointment out of the way and move on, rather than pursue any sort of long, drawn-out campaign. I figure that if someone has decided that they’re not interested, constantly annoying them with requests and sly comments isn’t going to change their mind.
Of course, there is a difference between the sort of behaviour described in the OP and a campaign of flirting and ingratiating oneself that goes on over an extended period of time. I remember when i was about 20 (ah, to be young again :)) i decided to pursue this woman who worked in the same place as me. I would drop by and see her in her office, and if our paths crossed in the coffee room i would make a point to chat with her. After a while, we got to be friends and started hanging out together away from work. I still entertained notions of it being something more, but she apparently did not, and shot me down when i made my move.
I took it on the chin, without getting all offended, and we remained friends for a while. The friendship came to an end a few months later, however, when i started going out with someone else. Then, suddenly, Woman #1 decided that she found me attractive and wanted to be with me. Now, i may not be the world’s greatest catch, but i’ve always hated game-playing in relationships and have always had a “one chance only” policy. If i make my intentions clear, and you reject me, then i’m going to chalk it up to experience and move on.
I really can’t explain the behaviour of guys who won’t take “no” for an answer. What’s even stranger is that some of those guys are also the type of people who will pursue a woman doggedly until she says yes, and then drop her like hot potato. It’s all the thrill of the chase and the stroking of their own ego, i think.
Another guy checking in. Some guys won’t take hints, so if you say you’re busy or have other plans, they’ll think hopefully that you really do want to be with them, and it really is true that the only reason you can’t spend next Saturday evening with them is because your aunt is visiting.
Then there’s a cultural aspect–in any number of movies or novels, the unlikely guy ends up winning the heroine after being rejected initially, often in no uncertain terms.
I think, in some cases, that it just boils down to bullying. The guy is not really all that interested in the woman, he’s just getting off on making her uncomfortable.
No doubt! I have known tons of women like this. I think this type of behavior is more commen when they’re young. They love the attention, but don’t feel they have to do anything for it until it’s gone. Live and learn, babe.
But to the subject of the OP, I don’t think there is a “one size fits all” answer. Sometimes it is just the thrill of the chase, as others have mentioned. Some men (and women, too) get fixated on one person, and can’t see past their emotions. Some guys use the same aggresive strategy in their love life as they do in their work. And some guys are just assholes who don’t care much about anything but what they want.
Another guy checking in, and we do it because, believe it or not, sometimes persistence works. Maybe it doesn’t most of the time, and maybe it doesn’t with Siege or Annie (posters above), but sometimes with some women it does work.
And if it weren’t for persistence some of us ugly people wouldn’t hook up at all.
Not at all blaming the victim here, but there are women who think they’re being clear in saying “no,” but couch it in nice terms, so that it sounds to the guy like she might change her mind if he just keeps it up. Look at the number of movies–romantic and otherwise–where the guy has to keep wooing the object of his desire (with borderline satalker behavior, usually) to ultimately convince her that she really is interested.
I think a lot of women could stand to learn to be more assertive when saying no; they need to learn not to apologize for it, or qualify it, or feel obligated to be nice if they’re annoyed. It’s OK to reject someone. That doesn’t mean it has to be brutal, but it should be unambiguous.
In my case I used to think that the guy was just lovesick after me but as the years past I realized it has NOTHING to do with me, it is all about him. He is satisfying a personal need. I think he enjoys being in control and by making me feel uncomfortable and playing wiht my buttons for a reaction he is in control.
Not all women sugar coat the word “no” I for one said point blank
I AM NOT ATTRACTED TO YOU and I AM UNAVAILBLE TO YOU and that still got me no where.
Look at the pickle I am in. So in short my awnser to you is “control”
I’m a guy who gives up pretty easily if a woman doesn’t show interest (because I don’t want to annoy the person I’m interested in). I must admit I think this is sometimes to my detriment.
I second PatrickM’s assertion that persistence is sometimes rewarded – I’ve seen first-hand evidence of this. I’ll go so far as to say that some women find persistence an attractive quality. I’ll even say that there is a breed of women who play a game with a man that is somewhat akin to running the guantlet to prove their worth. In this game, a number of refusals are part of the process.
As I mentioned above, I am the type of person who gives up if a woman says she’s not interested. Interestingly enough, I have been on the recieveing end and will admit that I have not only been worn down or persuaded to give it a shot, I have on one occaision even violated a personal rule I never EVER would have believed I would violate (For the record and without going into specifics, I didn’t cheat on anyone I was seeing at the time.).
Anyway, the short answer is: persistence works more than you think.
I don’t disagree with any of the theories suggested, so far. Any of them could be the answer, from the sound of it. But, I have another one to propose. Could this be the “dark side” of women constantly demanding that men “be confident”, if they wish to succeed with women? Perhaps he’s really taken that to heart, and is absolutely confident that you’ll change your mind, eventually.
Here’s a synopsis: Our Hero thinks a woman is hot. He asks her out. She shoots him down. He persists. The whole movie is about his persisting, often (in movies made more than a few years ago) to the point of stalking.
How many movies have you seen with that setup where the guy didn’t get the girl? Damn few.
I’m with the others, in particular Hey you! and Ethilrist. While I certainly do take ‘no’ for an answer, I still get the impression that a man is supposed to persevere even given some resistance (which of course should never go so far as stalking, harrassing, or persisting in the face of a clearly cold receipt).
So it is tough for guys to find out exactly when you are expected to really cut it out, or are expected to give it a last shot. I’ve been told that girls don’t like it either if a guy backs off at the first sign of resistance; some girls seem to think that it means the guy doesn’t think they are worth the trouble. Ethilrist put it very well: movies may well bear a lot of the blame.
Speaking as one who’s done it (sort of, though not to the degree you’ve posted, cj):
Don’t really care what happens. I mean, if you get blown off, so what? But if she relents, then it’s worth it.
Consequences … what, again? I mean, to someone who doesn’t value a friendship but does value getting someone bedded, where is the So Very Bad Thing about getting rejected a lot? You didn’t hit him, you didn’t get him fired for sexual harassment, etc. He got to be a walking penis for several months without much in the way of punishment.
Maybe his SO had initially played hard to get, and he figured it was the same way with you. Sometimes (read: Very Friggin’ Often) it’s difficult for me to tell if B’s just making me work harder to get (er, yeah), or if she doesn’t want it. Hmm. I think I’ll stop that example right … ||there.
I have to say that the male in the OP definitely sounds mentally unstable, but that is just my opinion, and not a medical diagnosis. The way he was acting is the exception, and by no means the norm, ladies. These guys probably stick out in your mind so much because they are the weirdo-freakazoids that you encounter, but in Siege’s case she actually works with him. Please try to focus on the positive and remember all of those cute nice guys you talk to in a days’ time: behind the coffee counter, at the grocery store, etc.
Siege, if you already haven’t, I would seriously consider a restraining order, changing jobs, and changing telephone numbers. But wait, that might just encourage a psycho like him. So, nevermind.
Personal experience here. I am rather shy, and have only persued a handful of women in my lifetime (but my wife persued me). I was very realistic about my goals and limits, when it came to women. I was very level-headed about it, and only when there was mutual attraction at some level. Of course, it is the woman who chooses exactly at what level that is. I won over every woman I persued (again, at some level), and some very beautiful relationships came of them. So, don’t give up on us, gals.
Chicago Faucet does make a good point: the man described in the OP is way out of line.
Maybe the problem with discussions such as these is that the women think of those kind of guys, since only the ones who persevere up to annoyingness and over that stick to mind. The men, on the other hand, think of all the times when they remained on the safe side but always kept wondering (or even afterwards heard that they would have had a chance if they’d tried harder). Women think about cases where it has become abundantly clear she’s not interested, men think about cases where signals are still equivocal. Thus a misunderstanding is born.
