Why is Anime so popular in the West?

I’d also noticed this but didn’t want to bring it up in the OP lest it turn the entire thread into a “Not all geeky girls like manga and anime!” flame-fest.

The thing is, I’m not an anime fan at all. I just don’t enjoy it; I don’t really like the visuals, the themes, or the overall style of it. It doesn’t appeal to me. I can understand that it would appeal to some people, but the majority of “geeky” or “nerdy” people I’ve encountered will possess, if not an actual interest in the genre, then certainly a familiarity with the stylistic conventions involved (ie they’ll know what it is and what it looks like and probably what it involves, even if it is Giant Robots Destroying Tokyo And Schoolgirls With Magic Powers).

Having said that, I do very much enjoy Hong Kong Action Movies and Bollywood films. But I don’t feel the urge to learn Chinese or Hindi to watch them in their original languages (in fact, I think for HK cinema it often orks better with subtitles or bad dubbing) or cosplay the lead in a Bollywood Masala film, for example, so I’m just wondering what is about Anime and Manga that appeals so strongly to people in places like the US and Australia that they do want to get that involved in it…

When a friend over there teaching English told me about the rubbish in the big cities and the huge cockroaches it encourages, it threw me slightly. I mean, that country looks so immaculate! It has to be with all the electronics and such, you can’t leave it dusty…

Martini Enfield, why do you bother asking why anime and manga are popular? You don’t personally like it. So what? There are an immense number of artistic genres (and many other things) that I don’t like and I will never understand why anyone likes. So what? I will never figure out what some people seem in some things. I could go crazy trying to understand their tastes. It just isn’t worth the time thinking about it.

All entertainment is built upon well established cliches. Plot outlines, character archetypes, genres, etc. I mean, just take a glance at tvtropes.org and you see how unoriginal most entertainment is. Of course, execution is important, so all plays-by-his-own-rules-but-gets-results cops are not created equal. But, when we see an ad for a movie or TV show featuring that type of character, our “oh, what an interesting idea!” sense doesn’t exactly tingle. The thing is, though, that Japan has different cliches from what you find in western entertainment, so when you first start watching, they appear to be fascinatingly original. Moe girls, for example, may be extremely cliche in Japan, but to a western viewer who has never been exposed to that character design it may be refreshingly novel. So, a lot of viewers get the mistaken impression that Japanese entertainment is somehow more original and creative simply because they have had less exposure. Since anime has begun to heavily influence certain quarters of western entertainment, it will be interesting to see what impact this will have on future potential purveyors of imported entertainment as the novelty factor wanes.

That being said, anime does tend to skew a bit older, though not nearly as much as I have heard claimed by certain ardent Japanophiles I have met. Consequently, it can be more accessible to an older audience than cartoons restricted by what they are forbidden to show to children. And there are some true gems to be found, such as the aforementioned Cowboy Bebop and works of Miyazaki.

What’s far stranger to me, though, are the folks who get into J-drama. Everything I’ve seen there is daytime-soaps style hamminess and booooooring. Cultural relativism be damned, I am content to pass judgment on that medium.

Grave of the Fireflies
Perfect Blue
Tokyo Godfathers
Wings of Honneamise

Any of those could just as well be remade as live-action and are equivalent to say Schindler’s List, Rear Window, The Fisher King, and 2001: A Space Odyssey (respectively). Only the Wings of Honneamise would even need CGI.

The people you are wondering about are most likely coming from one of two groups.

The first group is young, confused, and seeking for something to latch onto as a way to form an identity. They could just as easily have become football fans who turn their noses up at other sports. The appeal of anime/manga for these kids is twofold. For one, it gives them an opportunity to feel superior, because after all, anime is “mature” and American TV / movies (and by extension, fans of American TV / Movies) are therefore inherently inferior. Secondly, Japan is “exotic,” but it’s an easily-accessible and clean exotic, without any unpleasant aftertaste or consequences. So, you get the best of both worlds; you can be strange and obscure and be a unique butterfly that is “diversified” and “cultured” without actually having to make the effort to learn any dirty details and have a true understanding. Sort of the same way that people who want to travel to other countries to learn about other cultures usually will just eat in a couple of restaurants with other Americans.

(Not that I can be overly-critical. We’re all guilty of that kind of attitude to some extent. Most of us would say that we want to save the environment, but we would hardly consider giving up our air conditioning or other energy-hogging luxuries.)

The other group is made up of single video-gamers who are into Asians. Since Japan is the origin of most video games, the logic seems to go like this: get really into Japanese culture via easily-accessible imports, learn basic Japanese, go to Japan to teach English for a few months, meet some cute Japanese chick/dude, and score the perfect wife/husband who won’t have any problem if you want to spend the entire day sitting on the couch and playing games. This group tends to give up somewhere around step 2, because learning another language is, like, hard, and so they end up just being anime fans instead.

Sure, sure, there’s lots of other people who like anime for many other reasons, and I’m sure there’s lots of white folks who totally “get” Japanese culture and all that other crap. But the two groups listed above are very large, and very obnoxious, and they’re probably the ones that got on your nerves and led to your question. In both cases, the anime itself isn’t the attraction - it’s simply a means to an end, though not necessarily an unpleasant one.

On a related note, my wife is part Japanese, and neither one of us has any strong feelings one way or another for anime. She does, however, get really pissed off whenever a new nerdy acquaintance asks her about it. The worst ones try to speak to her in Japanese and she has to respond with, “What the fuck country do you think you’re in?”

Something nobody has mentioned yet: Anime is much easier and less risky to download illegally than American shows. I think that is a major reason it is popular among “computer people.” You don’t necessarily have to think it is “better” than American shows you could be watching… just cheaper (free). Very few people would pay for it. Also, it is morally ambiguous whether it is ok to download shows that are not available to buy legally in the US.

Without naming specific anime, as the OP said not to do, I can’t explain why anyone would want to watch anime even for free. It is a silly question. Why do you watch any television or movies? Because there are some good ones. Actually, I guess that does answer the question: because there are some good ones. Granted, the vast majority are terrible, and some of the common themes are embarrassingly bad, but there are a significant number of really good shows/movies that don’t fall victim to that.

In case you hadn’t noticed, the purpose of my OP wasn’t “I think it’s weird and so is anyone who likes it!” I’m genuinely curious as to what the people who do like it so much get out of it that is missing for me and many others. And it seemed like a good question for a messageboard that has a lot of people into geek culture and a number of Japanophiles.

Xavier, thanks for the informative post! I think you’re probably on to something there; it certainly makes a lot of sense.

Martini Enfield, in your last post you said:

> The thing is, I’m not an anime fan at all. I just don’t enjoy it; I don’t really like
> the visuals, the themes, or the overall style of it. It doesn’t appeal to me.

If that’s not quite the same as “I think it’s weird and so is anyone who likes it!”, it’s not terribly far from it. Furthermore, notice that at no point did I claim that you were saying that anime fans were weird. I said that you apparently didn’t understand what the appeal of anime was.

I’m still not sure why you bothered to come in and ask why I was asking a perfectly cromulent question about a notable aspect of pop culture (at least amongst computer-type people), to be honest.

It’s entirely possible not to enjoy something but at the same time to understand that other people do, and not have a problem with that. That’s the angle my OP is coming from, and I’m sorry you misinterpreted it.

Also, you’ve been here for ages and yet I notice you still have a very strange way of quoting things. Is it personal preference or is there another reason you do it?

Why is Anime so popular in the West?

Because the latest couple of generations never saw how good animation can be. Instead of seeing Jonny Quest, they had to watch crappy animation like Spongebob and Catdog, compared to which the Japanese stuff actually looks good.

I’m a bit late (especially since I basically agree with Revenant Threshold), but I thought I’d add that in Japan, there are subsets of manga marketed to older menand women, whereas the [del]adult [/del]grown-up comic book market in the west is (to my knowledge) not very big. It means that almost any animated film for the older audience is going to be anime, putting it in the same class as liking movies with colour/3-D/CGI.

Reading your OP again, I think I’d be far less likely to recommend specific anime if it wasn’t generally dismissed in north america. Of the fantasic films Sage Rat lists, I don’t think *any *were released in theatres here. Perhaps it would be like there being no comedy films in the west, and trying to convince people to give “The Princess Bride” a try. I think I’d see anything I could get my hands on, even if it ended up being “High School High”

It seems that some of there are original ideas from anime, and stuff which people in the West are unaccustomed to and for those who has seem it, geniunely original idea. Of course, some of those ideas have already been done to death since their inception.

Because space operas and old-school fantasy don’t exactly thrive in America?

There’s pretty much one of each in every new season in Japan. Most are crap, but even then, there’s still a vast amount that’s good.

Legend of the Seeker is barely limping along, whereas Lodoss, Arislan, Berserk, Slayers, Claymore, Rayearth, Bastard!! and Escaflowne got a fair shake in Japan and out here too.

I dunno, it just seems natural to me that once you run out of Battlestar Galactica, Babylon 5 and Star Trek you’d move on to Legend of the Galactic Heroes, Gundam, Macross, etc. More of what you want! Who cares where it came from! Firefly fans would eat up Cowboy Bebop.

My pet theory: in the mid 1960s both Japanese and American studios were producing solid adventure cartoons. Hanna-Barbera was producing Space Ghost and Johnny Quest, with design work by guys like Alex Toth and Doug Wildey, that had a fresh look and was breaking new ground. But just as this sort of thing was getting up to speed, Concerned Parents decided that violent cartoons were a Terrible Problem and various groups were formed to make sure that nothing disturbing or untoward would happen in cartoons.

No such thing happened in Japan, and children’s cartoons were free to corrupt the youth with ultraviolent spectacles of mechanical and supernatural destruction. Occasionally, as in the fine art film “Mazinger Z Versus Devilman”, science AND the forces of darkness would join forces to wreak havoc. Throughout the 1970s Japanese children were constantly bombarded with images of hideous violence, wholesale destruction, and the underwear of high school girls, while American children were subjected to mystery-solving teens, the super-powered non-adventures of the Harlem Globetrotters, the science-fiction “excitement” of “Gilligans Planet” and “Partridge Family 2200 AD”, and that muckraking expose of the country music industry, “Cattanooga Cats”.

Actually I kind of like “Cattanooga Cats”.

Strangely enough, after constant exposure to mechanical beasts and Satan-worshipping fossil monsters, not to mention Doreamon, Japanese children went out into the world with their inner lusts for destruction satisfied, and became model citizens. American children were denied their recommended daily allowances of super-robot excitement, and got into a LOT more trouble on a per capita basis. We, as Western citizens, feel deprived of our fair share of insane cartoons, and have had to make up for lost time through sheer willpower. Thus, the “otaku.”

Personally I find Anime’to be badly drawn and the underlying attitudes of the characters alien to my understanding.
I don’t knock those who are fans but its just not my cup of tea.

Really, Spongebob? Spongebob has great animation and excellent writing.