Why is Gandalf considered a great wizard?

That the OP should even be asked just proves the following to me: If you’ve played D&D or any similar game before you start to read Tolkien, try to forget everything about the games in thinking about Tolkien. Even though the games sometimes take words or ideas from Tolkien, they are completely different in theme from Tolkien. Tolkien (and much other fantasy literature, both before and since the creation of D&D) is so totally different in its objectives from gaming that trying to relate the two things will merely distort both of them.

Hmmm… by the standards set forth here, Candace Gingrich would be the most powerful wizard now alive. :wink:

Has anyone observed yet that the typical wizard is a human or humanoid being possessed of unusual magical lore, skills, or powers, while G., Saruman, and Radagast*, along with Sauron and the Last Living Balrog in Moria**, are incarnated angelic powers operating either at the behest of Eru Iluvatar (=God Almighty, Tolkien-style) or in rebellion against Him.
*Alatar and Pallando took the last train for the Coast, as noted in Part IV of Unfinished Tales.
** whether or not it has wings

Well the Angel part has been mentioned a doazen times I think so far. Also we do not actually know if the Balrog of Moria is the last. We have no accounting for if any others escaped or even the number of Balrogs to begin with. Apparently there may have been as few as 7 but that is not confirmed and more than the Wings and “Fuzzy Slipper” argument.

Yes, yes, that’s all well and good…but could he defeat a demonic tree armed only with a walker?

Bah! Your puny wizards are insignificant next to the power of Stardust, the Super Wizard. He rides around on a star and also turns into one and metes out cruel justice to evil-doers.

In blue leggings and a polka-dot belt.

That depends: does Gandalf have the walker, or does the tree?

Most people are overlooking that the powerful magic in Middle Earth wasn’t generally flashy fireballs, but rather concerned with motivating and helping/hindering groups of other people. Sauron (and Sauruman) are formidable not because they’re running around personally casting Meteor Strikes or Causing Serious Wounds or whatever, but because they have armies driven by their will to fight with murderous rage (remember what happens when Sauron goes bye-bye: his armies immediately stop fighting and scatter). The Nazgul strike not through high-damage lighting bolts, but through morale-sapping fear. When Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli are chasing the hobbit-napping orcs, Aragorn notes that some opposing will is making him far more tired than he should be, just as King Theoden is far more tired and weak than just his age would cause. Gandalf generally just opposes these evil spells, but clearly also provides hope and improved fighting ability to the scatter Rohirrim and defenders of Minis Tirith.

Unfortunately, RPGs and particularly computer RPGs tend to ignore morale/leadership, as NPCs are generally mindless automatons who fight to the death. Really, Gandalf is a figure not from an RPG but from a wargame: he’s a leader with a +10 morale bonus/+5 fighting bonus to the entire army on his side.

But if I had to go with an RPG character, since I don’t know WoW at all I’d make Gandalf a Paladin from Diablo II – decent fighter, but his real power is that he makes everybody around him better.

In short, Gandalf isn’t a big offensive spell-caster, he’s an uber-buff-er.

A long, long time ago…
I can still remember
how that magic used to make me smile.
And I knew that he would agree
to make all Free Peoples free,
and maybe just be happy for a while.

But frigid Solmath made me shudder
with every rider and some others.
Bad ring on the hearthstep,
I had to take a long schlep.

I can’t remember if I cowered
when I was faced with Shadow’s power.
That dark blade touched me deep inside
the day the magic died.

So bye-bye to the Istari Five,
Took my pony to the Pony
but the Pony was dry.
Old Butterbur was drinkin’ whiskey and rye
singin’ “It’s a new age, by and by,
It’s a new age, by and by.”

Did you write the Book so red
and are you by faith in Eru led
if the Valar tell you so?
Do you believe in the Ainurs’ Song,
can hoping hold out very long
and can you tell me why the magic’s gone?

Well, I know that they all had to go
'cause their tasks were done for the end of woe.
They could kick off their shells
and with th’angelic dwell.

And I am just an average hobbit man
with a Red Book copy and a case of “Fan”.
And I knew I looked pale and wan
the day magic died.

I started singin’, "Bye-bye to the Istari Five,
Took my pony to the Pony
but the Pony was dry.
Old Butterbur was drinkin’ whiskey and rye
singin’ “It’s a new age, by and by,
It’s a new age, by and by.”

Now for ten years we’ve been own
and mundanity grows on the world we own
but that’s not how it used to be.
When the Wizard scolded the Steward fey
In a cloak he borrowed from Manwë
and a voice that came from stage and screen.

And when that Steward got quite fried
the Wizard stole his authorit-y.
The Houses were adjourned,
Sauron’s victory was spurned.
While Saruman read an orb of sight
the uruk practiced by its light,
victory songs by the side of right
the day the magic died.

And we were singin’,
""Bye-bye to the Istari Five,
Took my pony to the Pony
but the Pony was dry.
Old Butterbur was drinkin’ whiskey and rye
singin’ “It’s a new age, by and by,
It’s a new age, by and by.”

I met an elf who sang the lays,
and I asked him for a cheerful day,
but he just smiled and turned away.
I went down to the sacred shore
where I’d seen the magic set sail before,
but the man there said the magic went away.

And in the roads the travelers roamed,
the lovers loved and the bard they crowed,
but not a note of eldritch,
the world was reft of that pitch.
Gandalf, Suraman, and Radagast,
Alatar and Pallando last,
they caught the flotilla to the West
the day the magic died.

And we were singin’,
""Bye-bye to the Istari Five,
Took my pony to the Pony
but the Pony was dry.
Old Butterbur was drinkin’ whiskey and rye
singin’ “It’s a new age, by and by,
It’s a new age, by and by.”

jayjay wins the thread.

Think we could get Weird Al to do another American Pie parody? :slight_smile:

::Applauds::

Well done, well done. Is this new or something you already had? Are we suppose to guess which part Strider helped with? :smiley:

Was that the day the music died? :eek: A whole new take on that song awaits!
ETA: dammit, jayjay! Note to self: read ENTIRE thread prior to posting! Well done.

Poly gets point for inspiration…I wrote that this morning* after I read the part of his post that I quoted.
*Your tax dollars at work…

I propose tacking on a couple million to the stimulus for jayjay to continue his composing. The entertainment value in such dark times is priceless!

Holy crap.

And this is me saying it, who wrote Longfellow’s Christmas Carol in an afternoon and evening, and the odd Elven ballad in Jim’s ME game… that was freakin’ awesome. And it wasn’t even my tax dollars, what’s more.

Amazing stuff. :cool:

Thanks. I look over it now after it’s posted and see all the places where I dropped words and an entire verse missing (besides the verses I deliberately didn’t deal with) and all that crap…I need to refine it some more.

Hence, the need for a stimulus, right?

As long as you are refining it: Towards the end you spelled Saruman Suraman and Ainur is plural so Ainurs’ should be Ainur’s.

Thanks! Looking over your shoulder for your supervisor is in no way an ideal state for proofreading…

Well, Cthuhlu would probably go insane and clutch his head and dive beneath the waves in an attempt to escape the overhwelming Holy power which utterly blows away Cthuhlu’s petty psychic abilities.
Anyway: Gandalf versus Raistlin!

Raistlin: Haha, you puny fool, I shall now cast Meteor Swarm and utterly destroy your pathetic body!

Gandalf: Stabbity

Raistlin: Blarg I am ded!

Gandalf: Huh. Wonder what that was about?

not much to add 'cept to say that this thread is why I love this board so much!
btw… would someone like Rand Al’Thor be able to defeat Gandalf? would rand be considered a wizard?