When I was drunk on New Year’s Eve I told my SO that “if we break up” he can keep the cat. (My cat is a running joke between the two of us; we both claim to despise him and yet we both worship him. The cat was mine when we moved in together but I do seriously think that he loves the cat even more than I do.)
When this conversation came up a couple of days later, he quoted me as saying “WHEN we break up.” And “when” is a lot worse than “if.” (He corrected his quote when I reminded him I didn’t say “when” but the fact remains that that’s what he recalled initially…and even though he laughed about it, he’s the one who brought it to my attention. I’d forgotten all about it.)
To be fair to my SO, I do make occasional jokes about “my next ex-boyfriend,” but that’s generally when I catch sight of some horrific specimen of the male species. Some guy with a mullet, no sleeves, and the kind of beer gut that makes him look thirteen months pregnant. It’s just another way for me to make fun of people.
However, he does seem a bit more sensitive to this type of joke/statement than I am…thus invalidating the OP’s assertion that women are the ones who are “wired” to be bothered by this type of statement. I’m not borrowing trouble when I say something like “if we break up” or “if we work out,” nor am I hinting that something is wrong or I see clouds on the horizon. He has said something to the effect that “if we go on the way we’re going, I want us to get married,” and he meant that we’ve only been together a few months but if we get along a year from now the way we are currently, we should get hitched. (If he meant something else…something weird that I should be worried about because I’m a “woman,” and he said the word “if,” I didn’t pick up on it.)
I guess there’s a lot of insecurity out there and statements starting in “if” can be worrisome, if you’re in that frame of mind.
But that kind of thing isn’t exclusive to the female sex, and I think it’s silly to think along those lines.
The worrying thing about that statement to me is the default position. “If things work out between us” makes breaking up sound like the expected outcome, which is not what you want to hear when you’re moving in with someone. At that point, what you want to hear is that staying together is the default. “If” makes it sound like an off chance.
I was surprised at how many guys said they interpreted that statement as being indicative of commitment.
Of course. Eventually you can say, “Since things seem to have worked out…” Or, “I’m glad things are working out so well.”
Statements qualified with an ‘if’ would only be used in the beginnings of a relationship when you’re still getting to know each other. At least for me anyways. The further I go, the smaller that ‘if’ becomes until it fades into insignificance.
And right now that ‘if’ is vanishingly small.
ETA: The if isn’t an expectation of failure but rather an acknowledgement that it may. Sure we would all love for this to be the perfect relationship, but sometimes it just doesn’t work that way and you have to start over.
He said, “If things work out between us” when she was moving in to his place. Moving in together indicates that things are indeed working out and if he doesn’t think so or isn’t sure he needs to let her know that now before she uproots her daughter and gives up her place to come and live with him. If he had said it 2-3 months into a relationship that would be understandable and not worth freaking out over, but when you are committing to living with someone and their child that should mean you are assuming that it will work out, not that it could work out.
I’m not a woman, but my attitude toward relationships is that it should be going somewhere; I’m not interested in purely casual dating with no “next step” on the horizon. The “if things work out” comment isn’t an insult per se, but it might indicate substantial doubt about whether the relationship has the potential to progress. If that’s the case, I’d be inclined to break up rather than maintain the status quo.
What pbbth said. I’d be incredibly insulted if my husband had said that when we moved in together before we were married. If he didn’t think moving in together meant that things had worked out and would continue working out, then we’d have to get ourselves on the same page, stat. I’m sure that would be doubly true if I were uprooting my child to move.
I think the source of the offense might just be in differing interpretations of things “working out.” If someone invites you and your child to move in and is changing their life around to accommodate you, then I think it’s safe to assume things are going well and he’s happy with the relationship. But this isn’t necessarily the same as things “working out”. “Working out” may mean marriage to him, because clearly if you’re married, it means things have worked out. (Heck, now that I think about it, I’m likely to use “working out” in this sense.) But right now marriage might not feel right to him yet. It might feel right in a year or two, but not right now. Ergo, it remains to be seen whether things will work out.
You, on the other hand, might see your current state as evidence things are already “working out”, and his use of “if things work out” makes you wonder exactly what the heck he thinks has been going on all this time and whether what you have will ever be good enough.
Or maybe it’s the idea that your SO has a contingency plan in case the relationship ends. I can see why that would be upsetting, but for anyone it’s a little foolish to not have an idea what they would do if their relationship fell apart, especially if you share a home or have intertwined finances or one of you is heavily dependent on the other in some way. You’re not looking to bail. You’re just looking out for yourself.
Chick checking in. I take pretty much all statements to have an implied “if we work out” to 'em. Therefore, I feel like the only reason to actually SAY it is if you somehow think there’s a reason that it won’t work out.
I mean, okay. Say I’m making plans with my mom for next year. Say also that my mom is perhaps older, and, while she’s in good health now, she’s of an age where having, say, a heart attack or something wouldn’t be entirely inconceivable. Saying, “Oh, if you’re still alive, let’s go to Rome next year!” would be rather rude and jarring, and would at the very least hurt her feelings. Same with this.
Of COURSE things are going to be different if things don’t work out. That’s a given. Saying it implies that you’ve given a larger amount of thought to the possibility than I have, and would make me worry that I’m missing something. I’m not saying I’d get pissed off if someoen said it, but it’d make me worry, and I’d probably ask what they meant, or if everything’s okay.
But, then–rant mode on–I’ve found that the only acceptable way for women to be in relationships is completely and utterly uncommitted. Anything else is being clingy. (Rant Mode Off).
[QUOTE=lobotomyboy63]
Do not imagine for a moment that women are the only ones who have had their teeth kicked in when it comes to relationships. Look at it this way: yes, there are men who are players. None of them have asked you to move in, though, have they?
I know all too well that men have had their teeth kicked in before.
And as a matter of fact, I have had one or two ask me to move in… or ask for a more serious relationship but guessing it was more of a player’s play and just who had control of the game (this of course was back when I was more of a player)… but that’s another subject for another day (or another thread).
To me it doesn’t sound so much as “if things don’t work out” as “I’m expecting things to not work out.”
I know, I know, it’s not what he’s saying. I know, I know, one should have an exit strategy. But still, I have to remind myself that I also think things may not work!
Whenever I make plans, I know I’m “playing Milkmaid’s Tale” - there’s no need to say it the whole time. It sounds like his expectation is that the crock of milk will break. I’m doing all I can think of to make things work… does this mean that he is expecting things to not work? So, he isn’t bothering “work at things” then? Why am I bothering, in that case?
If the starter was something like “ok, so eventually we should (be at X place). And if that doesn’t happen… (exit strategy)” then I am reassured that he is looking at both possibilities, he hasn’t given up already, therefore it’s worth it for me to “bother.”
I’ve never read much into “if things work out” and I’m female. Shoot, I’ve probably said that myself, and if I was implying something deeper than the literal meaning, I was doing it unconsciously. But Angel of the Lord’s explanation for why its bothersome makes a great deal of sense.
When someone says “if things work out”, I think it’s safe to assume that they don’t want to speak of the relationship as if its a permanent, done deal yet. They might be commited with their hearts and body, but mentally, they are still keeping their options open because, well, technically they are open. I can understand feeling like it’s best to be on the cautious side when speaking about the future, because I wouldn’t want to sound presumptious. But you can go too far with that.
If you’re moving in together and it’s agreed upon that this represents a step in your relationship leading to or equal to marriage or something like it, then “ifs” are incompatible with that. If you’re moving in together and it hasn’t been clearly established that this represents something major committment-wise, then some talking might be order. Because someone may be making assumptions that the other person isn’t aware of.
The problem with that interpretation is that it implies that something is wrong with the clutch. Sure, things can be fixed and worked out, but the phrase implies a reasonable expectation that the relationship won’t work. I know that there’s that chance. But geez, way to show some confidence! Sure the clutch on the chevy might break, but you’re not going to worry about it happening unless you’re already aware of a problem. “If things work out” implies that there is something worth being cautious over, and if you’re deep enough in the relationship to be taking on commitments like living together, then that casts suspicion on how you feel about it. If you’re not, then you’re not deep enough in to be worrying about what is that far down the road.
Huh, all this speculation that it’s all about the relationship and how the wise thing to do now is to bolt.
The very obvious (to me) interpretation is the living together thing. Shacking up brings the relationship to a whole different level, with a whole new set of stressors. What he was really saying was “If sharing a bathroom, cooking meals together, having a child in my home, dividing up chores, mixing laundry together, working out finances, and keeping the place clean to everyone’s satifaction works out…”
I’ve been in a number of relationships where I was perfectly happy, but no way was I ready to cohabit. In the one case where I did, yeah, I had serious doubts about it, and I expressed them.
