Referencing this thread where men are explaining to women that this statement means more or less what it says.
In interpersonal conversational scenarios this statement, or a similar sentiment, expressed to a woman who is dating or cohabiting with a man, is seen as highly offensive.
I’m old and wary enough that I would never say this out loud unless I had a beer too many or was tired, but I could easily see myself thinking it. In fact, not to paint men in general with a big stereotype brush, but I could easily see a large majority of men holding this as a central concern in any relatively young relationship. Some well meaning men are incautious enough to actually say it out loud, although long drives like the one cited in the linked thread will tend to wear down your resistance and natural caution in these things.
It (to me) is indicative of a prudent and mature frame of mind, things most women might want in a supportive and potential long term SO.
To the lady dopers, why does this statement raise your hackles? Does it have to do with the way men and women are wired, and the differential investments in a physical relationships where there is greater risk for a woman to get the choice “right” if she intends on a having (potentially) babies or a family with this SO? Does expressing an even slightly tentative attitude tend to rankle in these situations?
They’re probably expecting/demanding/deluding themselves with the idea that the man should be entirely 100% committed to being together forever and ever, at least until they (read: The Woman) decide otherwise.
So no comments or suggestions that it might not! No! Not your decision!
Some people (women are not the only ones) don’t like having such statements spoken out loud. It’s sort of a superstition almost; naming an evil gives it power.
I suppose if you spit on the ground afterward or made a religious gesture or something, it would be less offensive.
I think it all depends on timing. If it’s said in the first few weeks/months of a relationship, before there’s total emotional involvement, that’s fine.
But to say that after she and her daughter had moved in? Aiyiyiyi. She made a huge commitment, she rearranged her life and her daughter’s. Then he makes a comment that implies that he considers booting her out a viable option? Yes, I’d expect unhappiness.
Of course, I don’t really think it’s a good idea to move in with someone unless engaged, and I sure as hell wouldn’t move myself and my daughter in unless the wedding were about to or already had taken place.
To me, if he was to say that, I would take it that he isn’t completely invested in the future or is unsure about his future. Perhaps he is unsure about “us” or “me” or even himself. I don’t think I would get all upset or huffy about it. It might just show me that either we are two completely different pages or I am getting to comfortable in something that maybe I shouldn’t be. It might even make me second guess what I am feeling and where I am at in my life.
Lady here. My male SO doesn’t like it when I use similar expressions to the one in the OP. Early on in our relationship I was just being realistic. Now I’m mostly teasing when I talk about his next girlfriend/my next boyfriend. He’s pretty logical and knows we may not last forever, but he says I’m killing the moment.
I’m with phouka: it wouldn’t bother me in the least while I was dating. But I can very well see how it would be pretty scary to hear that right before my child and I were about to move in with someone.
Pretty much at that point in a relationship, I want a declaration that we both think it is working out, not a vague hope that it might. It’s not only my well-being I’m gambling with, it’s my child’s, and if the guy is thinking that there might be something that’s not going to work out I want him to say it right now, before I take the step of moving in with him.
I felt that the OP of the other thread, with no disrespect intended to her, was simply reading a little too far into what her SO said - something both men and women frequently do in early relationships. It’s not good, it’s not bad, it’s not gender related; it’s just human, IME.
Hmm, depends on the timing. If I said that to my husband (and I did, to see what he thought of it), he indicated that he would be immediately concerned about why I was thinking of things not working out when the default position for both of us has been that it was was. I confess that my assumption in the context quoted by the OP would be that my SO was having doubts and was saying this to distance himself from the implied commitment that goes along with moving in together. Sure, nothing is certain and the caveat of “if things work out” is always there but usually is unstated. Stating it has always turned out to be a red flag in my relationships, no matter who said said it.
As I explained in one of my postings, whenever I have said something in this context it meant that I had serious doubts about the relationship and it was basically my way of saying to the person “don’t hold your breath”. My female friends would concur w/what I’ve said and I DID NOT want to base the statement from my own experience & I prefer to have a positive outlook on the future when dealing with a serious relationship.
If I wouldve received negative replies to the post (he’s looking for a way out, he has serious doubts, etc) - I would have been able to collect my thoughts and brought my concerns to him on (hopefully) his level of thought. It is very possible that it was a slip of the tongue since his ex recently split from her hub.
I dont want doubts and I dont want to make a mistake. Breakups are hard and moving is a pain in the arse regardless of reason, therefore any doubts should be addressed and dealt with and the future looked upon with optimism and hope for everything good.
But I swear to Loki if he says anything again about upgrading him or having another bf I’m gonna get myself a male version of a real doll and put it on his side of the bed.
I think the statement is always going to be worrisome when it is made by the person who has less investment in the relationship–and that investment can be in terms of money, emotional involvement, or time (a woman’s more narrow fertility window makes a 3-year relationship investment more serious for her than a man, typically, if she wants kids/more kids).
Think about it this way: if you had a business partner in a business where you had put in a substantial personal investment as well as sweat equity, and your partner–who you have to have to make this business work–expresses a sentiment that led you to believe they weren’t already all in, but saw it rather as still an experiment they could back away from pretty simply, wouldn’t that concern you? It’s one thing to have specific concerns–that’s just prudent. But just a general statement of "If this whole thing takes off . . . " would be troubling. If they can be entertaining vague thoughts of walking away at anytime, it’s the sudden chilling realization that you could be up shit creek without a paddle. It would make anyone cranky.
My thoughts are that the person with the more romanticized, or idealized, view of the the relationship would be the most likely to be upset by such a statement. Our meeting was destined by the gods to be the true love of the century, how dare you even consider that it might be otherwise!?
The realists, on the other hand, know that while everything smells like roses right now everyone is bringing baggage into the relationship and not everything is getting unpacked at once. Either one of you might open up a suitcase and drag out a dealbreaker one day.
Or you just might go batshit crazy one day and declare that you don’t like coffee.
Surely, at some point–like, after marriage–even a hard-boiled realist could be taken aback at “if things work out” without being accused of starry-eyed idealism?
The realist? Are you sure “the overly cautious” wouldnt be a better label?
I am not a realist because I prefer to be optimistic and not worry about the “what ifs” and such? I just think that part of the key to a successful relationship is that BOTH people involved go in with the right attitude and noone’s waiting for that deal breaker to pop up… or be unpacked. If there’s been honesty throughout the relationship there should be no real surprises, imo, and no unpacked suitcase will hold a deal breaker… perhaps a surprise, but not a dealbreaker.
Everything smells like roses is like saying someone is wearing rose colored glasses and refusing to see outside that vision. I dont believe in perfection. But I do believe in planting and harvesting one hell of a garden to enjoy! And ya know what - that takes work… a. lot. of. work. Ready to garden with me, babe?
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Well… I dont like coffee without the cream & sugar that only you seem to know how to make just right (Starbucks is the next best thing)
Do not imagine for a moment that women are the only ones who have had their teeth kicked in when it comes to relationships. Look at it this way: yes, there are men who are players. None of them have asked you to move in, though, have they?
Again, asking you to move in is hardly the way to decelerate the relationship.
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Underlining above is mine: some time ago, I heard a phrase: “Fake it till you make it.” This was advice to guys about how to impress women without outright lying to them. Women want successful, confident men. Surprise: many of us have doubts. We’d like to believe you’re the one, but we’ve been let down before, just like you have.
Optimism? Freud said (words to the effect) “We’re never so vulnerable as when we love.” It sounds to me like he wants to be optimistic but is afraid to be so per past relationships. Don’t turn psychotic on him and I think you have a good chance.
It’s time for you to rise to the occasion, IMO. In every good relationship there’s a time where one carries the other.
Face value, ‘‘if the clutch on the chevy doesn’t go out, we can take a trip next month.’’
‘‘You’ve told me enough about going slow in your prior relationships that I don’t want you to think I’m rushing you or taking this for granted.’’
If you were waiting till we’re living together, or you’ve got the ring to expose the true nature of our relationship and what my obligations really are, know that I’m reserving the right to piss off.
I think the insult comes from wondering where the hypothetical breakup will come from. Most men (and I include myself) would say “if things work out between us” to mean “I’m happy and I’m sticking around unless you get weird on me.” But an alternate view would be the man’s thinking “If I get a better offer, I’m out of here” and that’s the one women worry about.
