Wildest Bill: No, my argument still makes sense (You put the lid up, you put it down). Women use the toilet only when the seat is down. Men use it when it is up or down. It only makes sense to keep the seat in the one condition that both sexes use it in: down.
And I’ll never understand why anyone would sit down on a toliet without looking at it first. It’s a freaking toilet for crissakes! Anyone who would do that obviously never lived in a college dorm.
This is my take on it: BIG FUCKING DEAL!
Usually, I put the seat down, because after reading Cecil’s column about toilet plumes, I don’t really want that shit goin’ on after I flush. But you know what? BIG FUCKING DEAL!
If I leave it up, I leave it up. If I put it down, I put it down. If you’re going to bitch about it, fuck you.
See, now, you can’t say “We might fall in!” Well gee, look first, m’kay? It’s not that hard. You walk toward it, don’t you? Or do you back your way into the bathroom, with nary a glance in the direction of the seat?
“I can’t see it in the dark!” Bullshit! Unless the toilet is right beside your bed, by the time you get to it, your nightvision will have developed enough to see it. Besides, even if you were clinically blind, a quick swipe across the tank would tell you where the seat was.
“I’m too asleep to look!” Well fuck! Why not go before you hit the sack? Better yet… WAKE UP!
“I have a sleeping disorder and don’t wake up enough.” Hey, a guy might have one, too! But you don’t see them complainin, now do ya? So does my mom, but she doesn’t ‘fall in.’ When we were kids, if we walked in their bedroom, she’d reach over, lift us up, and place us in bed with them without ever waking up. She’ll go to the bathroom without waking up sometimes. But you know what? She still knows enough to check the seat. If you know enough to get up, walk to the bathroom, pull down your clothing, and flush, I’m quite sure your programming is sufficient to lift a small plastic or wooden seat, also.
Look, you can’t make a solid argument one way or the other. You truly can’t. This is just as stupid and pointless as the toilet paper question. You can say “If you love me, you’ll do it.” BULLSHIT! If YOU love ME, you won’t give a flying fuck about the toilet seat. “It’s a courtesy.” Not when it’s expected. And besides, I don’t ask you to put the seat up as a courtesy for me.
My house has three guys and four girls in it. Dad, Mom, my brother, me, a sister, and a set of twins. Has there EVER been an argument over this? No. NEVER. Because every female in my household is intelligent enough to look before plopping down. And if they aren’t, they hit that water once and they’ve learned.
Final lesson? If you think you have a right to expect him to put it down, he has a right to expect you to look before you leap.
–Tim
It’s a damn cup with a tube on it. What the hell took six years?
BTW, I have this picture in my mind of all you ladies flopping about, wedged in the toilet, with your arms and legs flailing wildly in the air, your hair standing up in that just-out-of-bed, bride-of-frankenstein, 'do, screaming bloody murder at the 911 emergency response team: “DON’T FLUSH! FOR GOD’S SAKE, DON’T FLUSH!”
Ah, the injustices and indignities of this unfeeling universe.
I never really thought about it much, but, I don’t see how I can possibly resist leaving the seat up from now on.
That’s pretty funny APB999.
This thread, and something Sam Stone said about other issues probably being at the root of this issue, got me to thinking. I touched on this a little when I asked Wildest Bill who cleans the toilet at his house.
I am curious about the division of labor in households where this is an issue. I posted this thread in this same forum, and am curious to know how some of you guys who answered here divide the housework with your s.o.
Any takers? If so, come on over and post.
However people do it in their own homes, marriages, and so forth, is pretty obviously their own business. But I can tell you why we keep the seat down chez Firefly:
It matters much more to my wife to have the seat down all the time, than the minusucle bit of effort involved in keeping it that way matters to me.
In any relationship, if you can do something that matters a great deal to the other person, and costs you essentially nothing in terms of time and energy, then do it. Geez.
In situations where persons of both sexes are sharing a single bathroom at work, I’d say leave the seat up there, though.
Why? Because some guys will think their aim is better than it is, and piss on the seat. (Happens in every office I’ve worked at.) If the standard position is up, that won’t happen, and everyone will have a dry place to sit. You may not want to fall in, but you also don’t want to sit on somebody’s urine.
RTFirefly, I’ve worked in a place like that also, where you were best off wiping the seat before you sat.
And of couse it’s their own business how things are run in their households, so anyone who doesn’t want to share, doesn’t need to do so. I was just interested in whether there was a correlation between men who would honor their s.o.'s wishes about the toilet seat, and men who also do their share of work that has traditionally been labeled “women’s work.”
So far the best (which isn’t saying much) argument in favor of the men’s responsibility to put down the toilet seat is that men that don’t are insensitive, jerks, petty, etc. Basically, you all are saying, “If she wants you to do it, why not do it?” C’mon. C’mon! We put the seat up so you don’t have to sit in a pool of urine. Doesn’t that show a little bit of consideration?
Besides, as has been fastidiously calculated by several posters so far, it makes more practical sense to leave the seat as you used it. Any considerations beyond this are aesthetic. I can agree with closing the lid for hygenic reasons, but not because somebody isn’t able to follow this logical progression: I’m about to sit down on a toilet, which has two (or three w/ the lid) possible states. One of those states is desirable. Attempting to sit on the toilet while it is in the other state will result in me actually falling into a toilet. Better make sure the toilet is not in that state.
I don’t lean over the edge of a cliff because I think there is a fence there. I don’t test the strength of a frozen pond by running into the middle with all my friends and jumping up and down. I don’t see if a beehive is abandoned by sticking my hand into it. I don’t find out if food is spoiled by eating it all, and I DON’T sit on a toilet seat without looking first!
(As for the correlation between toilet seat behavior and “woman’s work,” this is a thoroughly ridiculous comparison that attempts to equate practical toilet seat manipulation with chauvinism.)
The ideal solution is for everyone to adjust the seat to where they need it, use the toilet, put it in whatever the hell configuration they want, then leave, and don’t make a big deal of it. If I was actually involved with a woman who thought this was a big deal, I would accomodate her, but I hope the point will be moot, because I really don’t want to be involved with anyone who actually thinks it’s a big deal.
It’s not a “Man’s Job” to put down the toilet seat, it’s a “Person’s Job” to make sure both the seat and lid are down, so that when you drop your toothbrush, it lands on the closed lid, not in the toilet.
RTFirefly, I completely agree with you. These are the exact reasons I always put it down if there’s a chance of a female friend or SO using it after me.
But, as has already been pointed out, it shouldn’t be expected and required. It’s a considerate thing to do, and I think guys should try to do it. But if they forget, they didn’t do anything wrong.
This is a special issue for some reason, in that unlike other courtesies, such as opening a door or bringing your SO dinner when he/she is swamped with work, a lot of women treat this one like a job, rather than a polite thing to do. (See many of the previous posts, for example.) Once a “courtesy” is expected and demanded, it kind of takes the fun out of it. (If you think it is a man’s job to put it down, don’t argue the politeness angle.)
If your SO is generally inconsiderate, choose a better example to bring it to their attention. If they’re considerate in all other respects, just let it go. Get a night light.
A toilet with the lid and seat up looks like hell. That’s why I keep the seat (and lid) down. I am not a compulsive housekeeper, but I like to keep things fairly tidy and nice. In my home we keep the toilet seat (and lid) down when it is not in use and I’ve trained my kids (a boy and a girl) to close them when they are through using the toilet. I didn’t have to train my husband to close the lid – he is as interested in keeping the house nice as I am, it is, after all our home. And, at another person’s home it is a no-brainer – it is just rude to go into someone’s home and not clean up after yourself. So, Wildest Bill and all you other toilet-seat-left-up types I’m forced to assume that you all assume that the sole responsibility for keeping your homes nice belongs to your mommies and wives or significant others. How does it feel in selfish land, you bunch of pigs?
BTW, I would never harangue a guest in my home about his toilet habits – that would be rude. However, when a guest leaves the seat up in my bathroom I find myself (silently) questioning his upbringing.
And, Wildest Bill? You can only see the point in behaving like a gentleman when you are trying to pick up chicks? Your mother must be proud.
And, (finally) to RTFirefly and the other polite gentlemen who posted :I blow a kiss:
Although I haven’t put it quite so bluntly (because I have been trying to get some of those guys to reply at this thread), I kind of agree with the sentiment, especially about guys who refuse to do this small thing when asked to do so by their wives. I think it is rather sad.
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What a fantastic leap of logic.
You are assuming that everyone agrees that “with the lid and seat up looks like hell”. Seat up or seat down, it still looks like a fucking toilet, and assuming it is clean, it’s doesn’t look like hell EITHER way.
Jess, since you assumed that “you all assume that the sole responsibility for keeping your homes nice belongs to your mommies and wives or significant others” because I leave the seat up, you can also probably safely assume that I beat my wife and kick stray animals and chain my kids to to radiator when I leave for work. Them’s the rules here “in selfish land”.
Gimme a f’n break. :rolleyes:
So mouthbreather, how DO you divide the labor at your house?
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Well, I dont see how this has one ounce of relevance, but I’ll play along.
6 weeks ago we started using a maid.
The rule in my house is that “If you messed it up, you clean it.” (for dishes, clutter, etc)
And prior to the maid, as far as routine cleaning went(garbage, dusting, vacuuming, cleaning bathrooms and kitchen, etc.), I did half of it.
Good for you! Your wife is a blessed woman.
Spider blows kisses to mouthbreather.
(Don’t tell your wife)
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Actually, I don’t have a wife, I live with my sister.
My girlfriends stays with me on the weekends. If and when we start living together, the cleaning routine will not change.
I just included the “wife, stray animals and kids (none of those either)” comment as an example of how I imagine life to be in the magnificent sounding SELFISH LAND.
Also, let me make it clear that I am talking about how I live in my own house.
Rereading this Jess comment:
Reminds me that I do lower the seat and lid when I am in someone elses house, but this is solely for respect of how they might like it, Not becasue I think it looks better or becasue it is somehow my job as a male to do so.
I’ll tell you all how this goes. Most home bathrooms have “things” placed on the counter and toilet tank. Gravity and Murphy dictate that these will fall in the toilet bowl. If you have kids, or a person that feels it necessary to flush the evidence, rather than retrieving it, once again, Murphy dictates that the toilet will clog and you now have that scenic waterfall in the bathroom. Now “I” have to remedy this by cramming my arm up to the shoulder in the toilet to retrieve the evidence. Not fun!
So there you have it, not a man thing, not a woman thing, it’s called common sense/courtesy. Everybody should close the toilet after use.
later, Tom
walks into bathroom
“AAAUUUGGGHHHH!!! There’s water inside that toilet! Dear God, the humanity! I can see right through to the bottom! Won’t someone make it stop!”
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And, at another person’s home it is a no-brainer – it is just rude to go into someone’s home and not clean up after yourself.
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Flushing the toilet is cleaning up. Moving the lid around is a personal preference. Just like people that make a big deal about leaving cabinet doors open. Damnit I leave the cabinet doors open because I’m going to go back into them later for more food.
Wow, that logic is airtight. Lid down=“nice.” Lid up=“not nice.” Give me a break. When I am at my parents house, I clean up my own messes. I do my own laundry. I wash my own dishes. A toilet lid up is not a mess. It’s a damn toilet lid. Is it really worth name calling, Jess? Hmm?
Now this is just a riot. You assume that every well-brought-up individual should share your every minute preference. Gosh That ruffian is wearing white after labor day.
Just realized this is kind of unclear. I live in a college dorm, where all of the above still holds true. (except for the dishes, when I eat at the dining hall) But even when I go home, where there is a “mommie,” I still take care of my own shit. But I leave the toilet seat however I damn well please.