why is it empowering that a woman have a sex toy but shameful for a man

Just checking in to say: nice use of the subjunctive in the thread title. :cool:

You don’t need to dig out research, it’s simple common sense. In our society, men are the initiators of relationships; men are expected to make the first move. A good looking woman who has no social confidence and doesn’t know how to talk to people will have men come to her and initiate relationships; she just has to follow their lead. And maybe, if she’s really horrendously socially-handicapped and incapable of talking to people, the relationships won’t work out, but at least she’ll get relationship experience of some kind.

Even a very handsome guy who has the same level of social confidence we’re talking about here will not be approached by women; I mean, sure, maybe it’d happen, but it’s unlikely.

Ah, yes, the time honored tradition of getting the guys together to hit the bars for a night of “hogging.”

Reading this thread from the vantage point of my advanced age makes me realize that sex is truly a ‘tempest in a tea pot.’

The hell it does.

It makes me wish I were young once more.

Plus, what do we mean by “approach”?
I don’t doubt that plenty of times women make first contact. Or (different point) that many men will only approach women that have given some kind of signal first.

But still, to create a relationship from nothing, there’s plenty of things the guy must do. The guy essentially leads in starting a relationship, women don’t like having to lead the guy.

If a woman is interested in a specific guy, and she doesn’t happen to be so stunningly beautiful that all men basically gravitate towards here, there are things she has to do, too. If you just sit there looking pretty, you might catch somebody’s attention. But there is a good chance that person is not someone you are attracted to. It can actually be pretty frustrating just kind of hoping that the guy you want will just happen to come to you. It becomes a fine balance learning how to call the right kind and amount of attention to yourself.

While being shy is not as large of a relationship handicap, women have other traits that can make them difficult to date. What if you happen to be the type that doesn’t enjoy getting dolled up? The girl with no make-up, hair in a ponytail, and sensible flats is not going to have the same dating prospects as the girl who knows how to make herself look good- and that is a huge time and money investment. An aggressive and slightly crude woman is probably going to face the same obstacles as a shy guy does.

I know it’s not the same, but it’s a game that takes a lot of energy for both sides. The whole “women have it so easy” line gets frustrating for me. At least the stuff guys have to do is under their control…if a woman isn’t born good looking, there is not much she can do about that!

Or, if she’s really lucky, the guy won’t exclaim ‘Hey, any hole’s a goal!’ right after sex. While I don’t think either extreme is to be envied, having to make the first move or having to wait until it’s made, being told you have the luxury of waiting to get hit on (or asked on a date, or asked for your hand in marriage) isn’t really that fabulous if you’re a proactive kind of woman. Luckily I think, little by little, some of these norms are fading, and the kind of guy who thinks a woman’s a slut for making the first move probably shouldn’t be with her, and the kind of woman who thinks a guy’s weak for not demanding she go out on a date shouldn’t be with him.

But back to the OP…

Dude, let me introduce you to the internet. It was practically made for gay people, including lonely guys alone in their small towns or wherever else on the planet and in the closet. Masturbating on webcam is some guys’ bread and butter, and many guys’ (and a few girls’) favorite thing to watch online. There’s tons of it. Much of it consensual, mutual and free. And, just as with a woman masturbating or even two women having sex, some people like it on its own and some people need another guy involved to get off on it. But it exists. In spades.

I would never put it like that.
Especially since, as I alluded earlier, women preferentially go for Mr Unobtanium – the more girls a guy appears to have chasing him, the more attractive he becomes.
So a woman’s attraction can push her down the road to frustration as surely as a guy’s.

It’s not as much under control as you think. Basically, there are men with lots of experience and confidence that are more likely to have positive experiences. And there are men who lack confidence and their lame attempts at seduction are likely to be embarrassing and to drop their confidence further.

As mentioned, I have some history here. For years I had the choice of being in the Friend Zone, or nothing. It was very frustrating for me: I know you like how I look, because of the way you acted when we first met. And I know you like me as a person, because we’re good friends now. What the hell else is there!?
(I didn’t ever verbalize the preceding :))

You making the first move. The girl almost never will. You have to understand that.

Back to the actual topic.
A lot of men find it a turn on when they find out that a woman has sex aids/toys in her bedroom. How do you ladies react to finding male-oriented sex aids/toys in his bedroom?

I dunno. Somehow I recall some agony aunt letters along the lines of ‘my boyfriend won’t let me have a vibrator because it makes him think his dick is inadequate’.

Mostly I shrug it off. I surf a lot more than my husband does, and if I find some (free) images that I think he’d like, I send him the links in his private email…NOT his work email! :eek: Mostly, he appreciates this. He likes busty brunettes, for the most part. He likes the occasional blonde or redhead, but it’s mostly white or Latina or Asian brunettes that he likes.

I’ve never met you, but hopefully you are a busty brunette.

My wife is slightly bi (though she has never acted upon it) and appreciates female beauty.

I can’t remember the comedian’s name, but he had a really great bit: “It’s not that you women don’t want to fuck guys. The problem is you all want to fuck the same guy.”

In the years before I met my wife, I was constantly in the Friend Zone. I probably would have wound up there with my wife if I hadn’t, very uncharacteristically, made a move. I had managed to lose my virginity before then, but it was to a very aggressive, drunk girl.

There are plenty of male masturbation videos on the web, and there are entire websites devoted to male masturbation. Men consume the majority of visual porn at the moment, but women are steadily catching up and, on the female-majority porn sites I visit, male masturbation videos/pictures are common.

While I’m hardly a connoisseur of masturbation videos, I’ve noticed that toys are primarily used by individuals penetrating themselves. I’ve seen men masturbating into toys, but primarily the toys end up in the guy/girl’s body. Since straight men are less likely to want to experience penetration and it’s seen as ‘gay’ to be penetrated, men aren’t supposed to want sex toys. I’ve also noticed that my gay friends are far more likely to use all sorts of sex toys.

Furthermore, I’ve thankfully never dated a guy of this time, but a significant portion of men feel threatened by female sex toys. In some of the sex positive communities I hang out, we constantly have posts from guys and girls who are finding it difficult to accept that the woman can’t just come without help from things such as vibrators. It’s considered empowering for a woman to have these sex toys because people want to get rid of the notion that women are supposed to be able to come through penetration, and we want to make both men and women think that women aren’t defective or broken when they require the aid of a vibrator to orgasm.

There are masturbation sleeves/pocket pussies which are intended to be penetrated, and the blow up dolls. Plus, of course, the notorious blow up sheep.

Well, I’m gonna throw in on this one with two anecdotes, more or less.

There is a Canadian cartoonist of my acquaintance (gonzo type) who is married and has freely admitted to having a Fleshlight. His wife knows and approves - mainly because (as in any relationship) there are times when he’s in the mood and she isn’t. Simple solution. No idea whether she has any toys, though I’m quite certain he wouldn’t deny her the same courtesy. I suspect there are far fewer occasions when she’s in the mood and he isn’t. So here’s an instance where the use of a sex toy for men has absolutely no bearing on the person’s sex life or ability to bed the sex partner of his choice.

As for my second anecdote - I have one. I’m currently not in a relationship and am working on a bunch of other stuff that takes a lot of my attention and energy, so a relationship wouldn’t be all that successful right now. And, frankly, I’ve found it to be a tool of survival. For me, it’s a potent stress reliever (world of difference in sensations compared to the standard method) and it really doesn’t take any more time to wash than most sex toys for women. As for whether it’s ‘shameful’ or brands me as a ‘loser’ or whatnot, that’s a load of crap and I couldn’t care less what some people might think. Ultimately - outside of this discussion - my sex life is none of their goddamned business unless they choose to actively involve themselves in it.

Isn’t it quicker, easier and, ultimately, just as satisfying to just bash one out using your hands like most men?

Do you want to help out? Otherwise, as stated - none of your goddamned business.

I didn’t mean to offend but was genuinely curious. As you’d brought it up in the thread I assumed you may be willing to discuss.

You aggressive response indicates otherwise.

Well, answer me this, then - would you consider asking the same thing of a woman?

ETA I did, in fact, answer your question even before you asked it - got no patience for people who can’t be bothered to read carefully.