“I’m sure there were good people on both sides” >jk
And my still un-answered question is what consequences are the OP looking for in stopping fascism in their family.
In my case it was a matter of refusing to participate in the fascism. I told my sister that the cost of her fascism is she lost a brother, if she ever rejects fascism and wants to work towards redemption, I would try to help. It’s a matter of refusing to be complicit in their crimes.
If the fiancé supported al-qaeda instead of Trump, would you still think the OP should remain silent? Is there any behavior you find repugnant enough that you would take a stand?
I said my family have agreed not to discuss politics otherwise because there is no such thing as intelligent discourse in America anymore … even in family. It’s about choices. If we were to say to my son, "We cannot support being a part of your life as long as you support Trump/al-Queda/organized religion/&c. it would be with the full understanding that he and our granddaughter would be cut out of our lives. Are we willing to sacrifice that because he is uneducated about politics? For us no. For you it sounds like yes. Choices.
I have said specific to this thread it is a bad idea because I don’t think the outcome will be what the OP thinks it will be. What I have repeatedly saying, or rather asking, is what does the OP want as a result? If the OP doesn’t care about a scorched-earth policy with regards to family relationships then that is exactly what they are going to get and by all means, let your views be trumpeted to the world. But I suspect the OP really wants the daughter to realize he is right and kick the fiance to the curb, but again they have not answered my question as to what they want as the end product.
I suspect the OP will come back in a few months bemoaning that their granddaughter has cut all ties and they will blame the husband for it.
But let’s go the opposite way; it’s only fair since you went the al-Queda route. OP is a vegan and eating animals is enslavement and rape and murder (think That Vegan Teacher ). Granddaughter is marrying a hunter and the OP wants to explain why he cannot support the marriage. Would you still think it is a good idea to take the nuclear option?
I want my daughter to understand my harsh opinion.
It can get better.
I feel your pain. But, please, please don’t throw your daughter and grand-daughter away over that goddamn idiot in the Whitehouse.
If you’re gonna do it anyway don’t let it get hostile or personal.
I hope it works out ok for you and your girls.
Good luck.
That is a straw man, whereas al-qaeda/Trump is a fair comparison, both launched violent attacks on our political system, both are hostile to democracy and both relied on our reaction to achieve their goals. For al-qaeda, it was our overreaction to the 9-11 that did the damage, and for Trump, it was our under reaction to January 6 that did the damage. Together, they represent the one-two knock out blows to our democracy.
Fascism thrives because people remain silent in the face of it. Silence is complicity.
Mrs. Watering has several friends that I suspect are MAGAtrash, but no one has told us they definitely are and when they visit, politics is never discussed.
It occured to me that all of this would be moot if my daughter had just kept her mouth shut about all of this. We would have welcomed my granddaughter and her (new) husband wih open arms, and if he had the good sense to keep his mouth shut, all would be copecetic.
My daughter simply doesn’t understand how touchy (and dire) this subject is - not only with me, but with the entire Nation, as well.
A militant vegan would argue eating meat is an act of terrorism so yes it is fair comp.
Moderating:
Did you read the OP? He has not asked whether this is a good idea. He has not asked whether he should have this conversation or not. He has asked what the best reasons are to articulate why Trump is so awful.
You have persisted in trying to get the OP to justify his choice to have this conversation – which he is clearly intending to have, not at all in question – to the point of badgering him and being a jerk. You are not in any way answering the question he posed in the OP. Moreover, he has tried to answer your question several times, but you won’t accept his explanations.
For these reasons, I am issuing you an official Warning. Going forward, I encourage you to make sure you are responding to the questions actually posed in an OP, and not use such posts as a basis to make them justify their queries or excoriate them for their choices.
NM…missed the note.
Good call.
There are some many arguments against Trump I can’t keep up. Keep up with all of the horrible things he’s done and is doing.
I think I would stick to ‘He tried to overthrow the government on January 6’. There are hours of video of this violence that HE CREATED.
They will say it was justified and it was a peaceful protest. They already do. But as far as in your face hard evidence, it’s right there. Hell, these people believe Alex Jones and Qanon. Good luck @MindsEye_Watering , whatever you decide to do.
This is an aside - We have some new ‘neihbors’. We invited them and the other couple (good friends) that lives up here over for dinner as a friendly gesture and get to know them. The Wife of the new couple broke into a rant about wokeness and would not be quite about it. Could not get a word in edgewise. After they left, the wife of the couple we like said ‘What the hell was that?’
This is gonna be a just smile and wave at them when you see them relationship. I’m just not a confrontational person.
Yeah, the thing to tell your daughter is Trump used violence to attack American democracy. I cherished American democracy, belief in democracy is one of my core values. I hope one day you can understand why.
If you want a factual answer as to why Trump is a bad person here it is.
He has multiple conditions at the same time
- Malignant narcissism (which means he is a sociopath and a narcissist at the same time)
- Frontotemporal dementia. So he has impulse control issues.
- A low IQ (one of his professors in college called him the stupidest man he’s ever met)
- A life of wealth and privilege that protected him from ever facing legal, social or personal consequences for his actions
- An extreme sense of entitlement that came from being a famous white man who inherited $413 million from his dad
- He realized his intense need for admiration and power can be fed by encouraging the worst impulses humanity has (bigotry, misogyny, rage, hate, contempt)
Another thing you can do is bring up the Katie Johnson lawsuit where a woman claimed Donald Trump violently raped her in 1994 with his friend Jeffrey Epstein when she was 13 years old.
- Plaintiff was enticed by promises of money and a modeling career to attend a
series of parties, with other similarly situated minor females, held at a New York City residence
that was being used by Defendant Jeffrey Epstein. At least four of the parties were attended by
Defendant Trump. Exhs. A and B. On information and belief, by this time in 1994, Defendant
Trump had known Defendant Epstein for seven years (New York, 10/28/02, “’I’ve known Jeff for
fifteen years. Terrific guy,’’ Trump booms from a speakerphone. ‘He’s a lot of fun to be with. It
is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it – Jeffrey enjoys his social life.’”), and knew that Plaintiff was then just 13 years old. Exhs. A and B.10. Defendant Trump initiated sexual contact with Plaintiff at four different parties.
On the fourth and final sexual encounter with Defendant Trump, Defendant Trump tied Plaintiff
to a bed, exposed himself to Plaintiff, and then proceeded to forcibly rape Plaintiff. During the
course of this savage sexual attack, Plaintiff loudly pleaded with Defendant Trump to stop but
with no effect. Defendant Trump responded to Plaintiff’s pleas by violently striking Plaintiff in
the face with his open hand and screaming that he would do whatever he wanted. Exhs. A and
B.
Immediately following this rape, Defendant Trump threatened Plaintiff that, were
she ever to reveal any of the details of the sexual and physical abuse of her by Defendant Trump, Plaintiff and her family would be physically harmed if not killed. Exhs. A and B.Defendant Epstein had sexual contact with Plaintiff at two of the parties. The
second sexual encounter with Defendant Epstein took place after Plaintiff had been raped by
Case 1:16-cv-07673 Document 1 Filed 09/30/16 Page 4 of 10Defendant Trump. Defendant Epstein forced himself upon Plaintiff and proceeded to rape her
anally and vaginally despite her loud pleas to stop. Defendant Epstein then attempted to strike
Plaintiff about the head with his closed fists while he angrily screamed at Plaintiff that he,
Defendant Epstein, rather than Defendant Trump, should have been the one who took Plaintiff’s
virginity, before Plaintiff finally managed to break away from Defendant Epstein. Exhs. A and
B.
When you consider that approximately 1% of the population is sociopathic, we’re talking 800,000 of his voters. So you’re probably at least partly right.
I am not in any way a Trump fan, but surely you realize that in politics, there are no ‘facts’.
Everything is an opinion or a ‘position’.
Many people will disagree with your position. Enough of them did to elect him. Alas.
Yup. About 77 million.
And another 90 million or so don’t give a damn enough to vote. My daughter and her daughter are in that group.
I am not in any way disagreeing with your position.
I think he is at best a floundering loose cannon, at worst a potential fascist tyrant.
But, he got into power by apparently legitimate means.
As Churchill put it: democracy is a very bad form of government.
(But all the others are so much worse, for anyone unfamiliar with the quote)… 
I disagree. There are objective facts in politics. Objective, Norway is a better place to live than North Korea due to politics.