Well…I guess I probably should have thought this OP through a little more before posting it. I suppose it’s easy to forget that what seems like harmless joking around with a couple of your buddies can actually be pretty offensive to outsiders, which was not my intent. Well…maybe a little…but not in a malicious way.
Some people realized that it was a joke and either did or did not find it amusing. Others apparently have decided to see me as a symbol of every bully who ever picked on them (I’m actually a …relatively …nice guy).
In any event…since at best, the OP was interpreted as a poor attempt at humor, the Mods may feel free to close the thread.
It’s ok that I laugh, some of my favorite parents are women.
I think the play is on wives and girlfriends holding out on their lovers in order to get what they want, rather than your interpretation.
What stereotype does “An MRS is easier to obtain than an MBA” reference? Though if I’d written it, I’d have put the MBA first as harder to obtain; plays against the expectations differently.
Actually, that’s a pretty funny shirt. I’d wear it. Do you think it should have actual pictures or stick figures? I think stick figures would play better. I guess I’ll go back to watching commercials where men are uneducated, salivating simpletons that can’t tell colors apart, cook food, or handle children. That’s the reality I’m comfortable with. Everything is safe and realistic there, you know?
Perhaps that’s based on more than just this one thread. As mhendo suggested, your previous posts paint a pretty vivid picture of what your values are.
And as far as the point that most of us here didn’t find it funny, while your buddies did–it’s got nothing to do with what the posters here may have had up their butts. It’s just that it wasn’t funny.
Let’s analyze the joke a little. This type of humor generally depends on there being a kernel of uncomfortable truth embedded in the “joke.” For example, a common subject of this type of joke is “how the world would be different if men had their periods.” One of the answers is “if men got their periods, tampons would be subsidized by the government.” That’s sort of funny, because there is a disparity in how “mens” and “womens” products are treated. Many health plans don’t pay for birth control, but will pay for Viagra. Another answer says that men will brag about how heavy their flow is. The whole list is funny, because in a patriarchal society, something that is the exclusive province of men will be valued more highly than something that is the exclusive province of women.
Your list, on the other hand, didn’t have that kernel of truth in it. It just rehashed stereotypes that have been thoroughly debunked. That’s why it’s not funny.
Actually, I knew what the reference being made was, I am not that dense. But thank you for your effort to “enlighten” me.
Being a female and having been in the IT/Telecom industry for 18 years in a primarily male dominated environment, in the south no less, has warped my sense of humor.
Sheesh, don’t you khow that women only go to college to find a husband? They’re not actually going to get any kind of degree, see, or if they do it’s basically an accident. Because as soon as they get pregnant they’ll trade in that office job for sitting around the house watching TV all day, so they don’t need a degree, just some guy to support them.
Do you honestly not recognize that one? It surprises me. I don’t know how many times I heard it in college.
As a slight hijack, I think this episode illuminates the most interesting thing about comedy. In short, if you are funny, everything is forgiven. There is no subject that I couldn’t laugh at given the right approach. This goes a long ways towards explaining why msmith and Andrew Dice Clay are considered offensive, but South Park and Chris Rock aren’t. Each wades into controversial topics, but some do it much better than others.
The more controversial the material is, the more certain you must be that you are offering something fresh, relevant and funny. I wouldn’t consider misogynistic humor to be the most controversial of topics, but msmith’s attempt was so bad that it became offensive.
You know, in my 7 years of being an undergrad (yeah, it took me forever to get my B.A. Damn that whole working full time and paying my own way through school thing, I should’ve just been trolling the singles bars and waiting for my golden opprotunity to find a big strong man to support me so I can sit at home and eat bon bons all day! And having a career and attending law school now? I’m not working my ass off to achieve my goals. Hell no, I’m still lookin’ for that big strong man!) I met one girl like this.
Although, she had every intention of finishing school. She needed a fallback plan in case her marriage didn’t work out.
:rolleyes:
Still pissed me right the hell off. Chicks like that are what make these lame attempts at humor survive and make it hard to be taken seriously in the workplace.
That one was from last week, suggesting that women get lawn mowers and trash cans that ‘remind’ men to do chores.
It seems a general slam against men being unable to use a toilet properly or not mowing the lawn enough or not taking out the garbage at the right time is OK.
Well, that’s certainly an… interesting interpretation of that thread. I don’t see anyone in there who seems to think it’s an actual good idea, just a bunch of people making fun of a pretty obviously stupid invention from Germany. Not all that different from the response this thread got, except that there isn’t as much hostility. Probably because the person with the stupid idea (the German inventor) isn’t a member of the board.
catsix, I’m having trouble seeing the validity of your comparisons. Now, if msmith had made jokes about women being unable to leave the house without doing their hair, or refusing to don a jacket in freezing weather unless it matches their outfit or something like that, then I could see the comparison.
As it stands though, typical male stereotype jokes are not remotely as damaging as “women don’t belong in the workplace and here’s why” jokes.
It puzzles me how you can’t see that. Especially being a professional woman.
And if you can quote from that thread where a woman said that all men were lazy and disgusting, then you have an equivalence between it and the OP posted here by msmith.
Well, I re-read msmith’s post, and I don’t see him saying ‘all women’ either.
I do see a generalization of ‘men’ in the other thread as people who have to be reminded to piss in the bowl (disgusting) and to mow the lawn or take the garbage out (lazy) on a constant basis.
And in this one, I see a generalization of women.
So, I do see an equivalence. Now, if msmith had put the word ‘all’ in his post, and I didn’t see it, I’d say you were right. But he didn’t. He generalized, and so did posters in the other thread.
He said ‘women’. The others said ‘men’. How is that not on the same level?
I always hear a BA in liberal studies referred to as an MRS degree since you couldn’t really do anything with it but be an educated househubby or an elementary school teacher (no offense intended to those who intended to be elementary school teachers)…
Wanna know the real reason why some women have more trouble making it up the corporate ladder than men? Because a lot of women are stuck with asshole MALE bosses who view them as a being of substandard intelligence, a sex object, or both. I have such a boss. Although because I am completely undesirable to him (he only fawns over the 5 foor 6, blonde, 110 lb employees), he just considers me stupid. He automatically assumes I know nothing about computers (although I do some programming and have a degree in Graphic Design - most of which I do on my Mac) and he believes nothing I tell him, about work-related things or otherwise. He always has to double-check everything I do to make sure it’s not wrong. It’s because of mysogynistic bastards like him that I probably will never get anywhere in this company. I’m smart, goddamn it, because I sure as hell wouldn’t have gotten top marks all through school otherwise. So screw all the assumptions that the OP makes.
Well I’m sure that I will get slammed for this, but you don’t see a kernal of truth in the fact that there are girls who still go to college just to meet a husband and become an elementary school teacher? That there are a lot of women who are start out as hard-working and ambitious until they get engaged and then it’s all about planning the weding? That society not only pressures women to leave successful careers, but in fact is set up to encourage it?
I wish I had the link to an artical I read but the artical was on old-fashioned newspaper. Basically it talked about a “marriage crisis” where successful women were forced to “marry down” because they couldn’t find a man with an equivalent career. I personally know women who have had relationship problems because they wanted to pursue a career in whatever while their husband/spouce/whatever is content with a 9-5 job.
What is the message here? These women want successful careers but they still want the safety-net of a more successful man around just in case things don’t work out? Where’s my safety-net damn it! Am I not allowed to get some busy-work job bartending or working in Blockbuster, cleaning the house while my sugar-momma goes off and pays the bills? (after consulting with my girlfriend, it appears that I am not)
Oh and here’s a clue for you Satyricon. Your boss may not be an asshole to you because you are a woman. It may just be because it’s work and that’s what bosses do - act like assholes. If you are upset that he isn’t fawning over you like some drunk frat guy at a kegger, that’s one thing. If you are upset that he isn’t overwhelmed by your “some programming” and Graphics Design creditials, that’s a separate issue. But everything else you described is typical work bullshit that we men have to suffer through too - being unappreciated, dead end jobs, not getting respect, micromanaged. Shit…maybe MY boss thinks I’m a woman too .
So I decided to combine my love of women with my love of hating work into a ironic message about how women have a hard time achieving the same heights as men, not because of institutional obsticles set in place by mysoginistic men, but because elements of society have created the incentives for them to NOT succeed. I had thought that the great minds on this board would have looked deeper than my OPs sophomoric facade and grasped the underlying message. Instead, I get a bunch of knee-jerk reactions.
Well I tell you this…I am disappointed in all of you.
I know some blacks who like watermelon, too. Oh, and I think I’ve seen a few folks in the paper who were arrested for various crimes who were black. My gosh, those racist stereotypes must have a kernel of truth in them! Well, then, bring on the racist jokes–they’re funny!
Of course, the jokes themselves can’t possibly have a hand in not only perpetuating the stereotypes, but actually establishing expectations and limiting the perception of non-stereotypical behavior so that society can break out of the cycle. No, of course not.
BTW, I myself never met a woman working on an MRS. One poster in this thread met one. One, out of how many people she knew in college?
Actually, once a woman has kids, she’s pretty much screwed no matter what she does–it’s pressure city either way. If she stays home, she’s lazy and stupid. If she works, she’s selfish and abandoning her children. There’s nothing a mom can do that will make her safe from it, either way. Men have it easy in that department at least–you go to work every day, and you’re a good provider.
anecdote != data I could say, entirely truthfully, that I personally know women who are pursuing careers, and whose husbands aren’t remotely ambitous (and earn less than their wives) and are happy as clams.
If I made as much as Mr. Cameron does, I would have no problem with his staying home to take care of the kids. If your girlfriend doesn’t feel the same way, perhaps you might discuss why with her, rather than posting offensive “jokes” on message boards.
No, your boss thinks you’re an idiot. See, there actually are bosses who treat women this way–just women. I’ve worked for them. I’ve also worked for bosses who were just plain nasty to everyone, and bosses who appreciated each employee’s abilities or lack thereof. What Satyricon is describing is not a boss who treats all his employees like an idiot, but a boss who treats women like they’re idiots, and only bothers to be pleasant to women who he finds sexually attractive. You may not have seen it, but it’s out there.
It’s the last refuge of an asshole. “It was a joke! You just don’t have a sense of humor! If you were smart enough you’d have seen how profound my message was! Sure it looked sophomoric, but that was just a facade!”