Perhaps you should remember that your comment was about this thread in which no one said that, even though you claimed there were multiple references to exactly that type of statement.
Listen, peaches, I can use whatever nickname I want. If you don’t like it, you’re obviously either a professional victim whining about a mythical Patriachy or should find another board to post on where no one will ever call you anything you don’t like. You know what I’m saying, sugar buns?
Then I will agree that only one person said that the present day American society is patriarchal and that males are dominant in it up to that point in this thread.
However, I don’t see much difference between ‘women are the victims of present day patriarchy’ and
So you’re just going to have to accept that as a difference of opinion.
Loud and clear.
You’re an asshole.
You forgot “cupcake”, Giraffe.
No, no, actually I was just pretending to be an asshole to illustrate a point. I’m really quite lovely.
(I really wish I’d thought of “cupcake” – it’s way better than “sugar buns”.)
Michael? Is that you?
What point did you have? Because it was about as clear as a turd.
No, it’s Giraffe. Who’s Michael?
Your turds are clear too? My doctor says it’s because I need more fiber.
My point: your response to Satyricon’s boss’ sexism was to suggest she look for another job. My response to your complaint about me calling you “kid” was to suggest that you post on another message board where no one will call you anything you don’t like. It’s a foolish thing to say, though, as such a message board doesn’t actually exist – if you already have a message board you like, why not fight the assholes who would ruin it for you? Satyricon having to move from job to job is similarly unreasonable, as it’s quite difficult to find a new job and there are no guarantees the next boss won’t be just as sexist, especially if the people who worked there before followed your advice instead of trying to fix the problem.
Plus, I figured if I called you “peaches” you might get all riled up and call me names.
What I am asking is, why is that in every thread where we talk about sexism directed towards women, you, catsix, have to come marching in and start telling us about sexism towards men?
I don’t get the point. We KNOW both sexes can be jerks. But how does that contribute to the discussion? I am so fucking tired of “well, the other side does it too!” Didn’t we leave those kinds of arguments behind in third grade?
I don’t know why you get so up in arms when we tell you that sexism exists and YES, we STILL have a male dominated society. Maybe not on purpose, maybe not officially, and I don’t believe in that garbage about an all powerful patriarchy.
But it’s out there. And to tell us that we’re just trying to be perpetual victims is disgusting and condescending.
The last guy who tried to ‘play asshole’ to me. He ended up being one of my best friends.
Well, if it’s being ‘ruined’ for you, it’s not really something you like too much anymore, is it?
Maybe I’m just looking at it a different way, in that I don’t see why I’d continue to go to a job where I was completely miserable in the hope that I could change my boss if I could much sooner find a different job working for someone I did like. Going about getting your boss fired if there isn’t something really blatant is a long road to drive, yeah?
And however wrong the situation she’s in might be, it’s one anecdote which does not prove the claim that was made: the real reason women don’t get ahead in the work place is that a lot of them are stuck with sexist bosses.
There are plenty of women who do get ahead, and plenty who don’t have sexist bosses.
Or hit on you. Worked on Michael.
Maybe it’s because, gasp, I actually found the fucking joke about as funny as the other thread about the talking toilet seat?
Maybe because I found it really ironic that such a fit was pitched over this and not that.
Well, now I see why.
Thank you for illustrating my point so well Giraffe.
Yes, changing jobs can be a form of advancement. That’s hardly justification for stating that one should react to an asshole boss by heading for the hills.
Moving is a great way to avoid being a packrat. Does that mean that I should deal with my annoyingly loud neighbors by moving?
Gotcha. You’re not denying sexism exists, you’re just too lazy to fight to end it, and would rather take the easy road and just run away from the problem.
I like my job. It’s a unique industry and if I had a crappy boss that was doing things he shouldn’t be doing, to all of the female employees mostly, I wouldn’t just up and leave. Like I said, I enjoy my job and it’s a unique industry. I couldn’t just pick up, walk down the street, and get another one just like it.
Where do you work, McDonalds?
Anyway, if my boss was doing something blatently wrong (like treating all female employees singificantly and observedly differently than the male employees) I would band together with the other female employees and go to human resources.
Why should he have full control over the situation and be able to chase me off?
If they own their house, aren’t doing anything illegal, and you truly hate living next to them, what other solution would you suggest?
Wrong again.
I said sexist people exist, fair enough. What I really think is that if you’ve tried to change the current situation, and all efforts have met with failure, how the fuck long do you keep trying to change that person before you do something else?
And what if you can’t do anything to change the boss?
If you’d paid as much attention to my posts as you’ve implied you do, it’d be obvious that I don’t work at McDonald’s.
I am currently teaching at college level, doing systems administration, and freelance consulting.
What if the boss’s asshole behavior isn’t to the point of being illegal or violating the terms of his employment and there’s nothing that HR can do?
One example that comes to mind would be if he owns the place.
Being loud isn’t illegal, no. But gender discrimination is. So is sexual harassment (it could be shown that the behavior that poster described could be a form of sexual harassment). I used that comparison to illustrate the weakness of your justfication for her looking for another job. Just because an action has a certain benefit doesn’t mean it’s the preferred action or the action that should be taken.
How do you know she’s tried to change the current situation? Has she been to HR? We don’t know. So suggesting she leave her current place of employment before even finding out if she’s tried anything indicates that you see it as the only or preferred action to be taken. Or at the very least, the first action. And it’s not like she’s upset he wears too much blue or something. Gender discrimination is against the law. I’m not saying it would be a cakewalk to prove or that she’d win, but she should at least try before throwing her hands in the air, giving up and running away.
See my above comments. If she’s tried everything and the cost of fighting outweighs the good that can come of it, then she should look for another job. All I’m saying is that it shouldn’t be her first choice. How many problems have been solved by running away? I agree with Guinistasia when she said if you always run away, eventually there’s going to be no place to run to.
I know you don’t work at McDonalds. I was being sarcastic. I was trying to illustrate that today, in this economy, it’s not as easy to just pick up and get another job as you seem to think it is.
I would love to learn in what company harassing employees on the basis of their gender is within the terms of employment.
We do only have one side of the story here.
The actual events, comments, whatever, can’t be proven here. I’ll take her at her word that they are as bad as she says, but in reality when a judge or HR or someone else is listening to both sides, they might find that none of his behavior constituted harassment or discrimination.
If she hasn’t tried to change the situation, then obviously that’d be her first step, but for some reason I figured that if this was an ongoing problem that she’d already attempted at least something.
I wonder why catsix didn’t get mad at me for calling her “jack.” Perhaps because “Jack” is a male name?
(I kid, I kid.)
You called me Jack?
I missed it, I guess.
Seriously though, I’m not trying to sound like I’m angry. Perhaps a little frustrated because it feels like I’m not being understood when I say that denigration of either gender is bullshit that has to stop.
It’s almost as if condemning sexism against men means that I always give sexism against women a free pass. I guess I just don’t see it as an either/or situation. I think I can be opposed to both.
First, from what the other posters who actually posted in, and READ the other thread have said, most of the thread WAS making fun of the stupid inventions.
Second, as a rule, a lot of men DO leave the toilet seat up, it’s a source of jokes, teasing betweens both halves of a couple, a longstanding marriage thing from both men AND women out there in marriage/relationship land. It’s NOT that much of a biggie for the major players, man and wife, or cohabiters.
It’s not like “they leave the toilet seats up, HOW horrible, HOW purposefully stupid, HOW traiterous to others”, it’s more like “oh HONey!!! the seat’s up”!
Or even the reverse joke from the hubby’s side of “hey, you left the toilet seat DOWN”.
This is differerent than the “jokes” in the OP, which basically paint the “perps” as being purposefully stupid, selfish and rotten.
Well, I don’t see it as so. Being that it’s a matter of opinion, I suppose we’ll have to agree to disagree.
Cat, it’s not that people are disagreeing with your assessment that there is sexism from both sides.
From what I read, THAT point was agreed upon in this thread (and others). The problem is, as other posters have said, that any time a thread bashing women gets criticism, your posts ALMOST appear to be defending the OP because “well men get treated that way too, and worse”. (paraphrased).
The point folks are trying to make to you here is that THAT being true doesn’t excuse the perpetrator of women bashing garbage.
Also, as I mentioned, you DO come off sounding like the “Myth of Male Power” converts, who really, are nothing but the "men’s libber equivelant of the feminazi fringe lunatics.
I know you don’t mean to, but that’s why you’re getting so much grief here, NOT because some of your points aren’t valid, they are, it’s all in the delivery and timing.
EXACTLY! Thank you. This is what I have been trying to say all along.
catsix, you may not MEAN to come off that way. But sometimes you do and it’s annoying. While I’m certainly not a fan of her’s, I saw a quote attributed to Andrea Dworkin that stated that equality shouldn’t mean “both groups get treated badly”. (Yes, it was from Ms, but it still holds true). That “Okay, then, let’s stick a spiked dildo up some man’s ass to prove that he too can be abused-what does that accomplish?” Nothing.
We don’t want equality to mean, “Well, the other side gets shit on too!”