Why People Vote for Trump - help!

So dear old mom sent me a piece of crap email (copied below). What is GREAT is that mom asked me how to refute / check these numbers! I consider this a huge step for her, but I would like to ask the 'Dope for assistance. There are a lot of numbers in this thing, and I want to reply to her point by point with some help with cites.

  1. $1,500 monthly for each “anchor baby.”
  2. Single refugee with a monthly allowance of $1,890. Each can also obtain an additional $580 in Social Assistance, for a total of $2,470 a month

The comparison number is the social security stuff and the “maximum of $1,012 in Old Age Pension and Guaranteed Income Supplement”. The cap in social security seems to have accuracy issues as well.

Now, I can send her to the Snopes article (which sometimes works): Are Asylum Seekers Paid More Than Social Security Recipients? | Snopes.com

Funny how this is an urban myth that started in Canada…

But any ideas on “true” numbers for America?

Well, if the refugees are allowed to stay and get assimilated, they too will contribute “to the growth and development of America for 40 to 50 years”, so what’s the big deal?

This is one of those “penny wise, pound total fucking moron” cases, except they’re not even penny wise.

That part is easy for me - I was hunting down an attempt to fight the ignorance of the dollars, not just the hyperbole (without even getting into the racism and the modern welfare queen that is apparently now a Hispanic illegal immigrant OR a refugee instead of being black).

See here and here

How does an illegal immigrant get federal aid?

Is it good or bad that we’ve moved from “wellfare babies” to “anchor babies?”

Why do People Vote for Trump? Probably they have a feeling of alienation topped off with an unhealthy dose of Despair? Others may vote for him just for Cheap Thrills.

Good for the AAs, I suppose.

I had just seen this article on Newser showing Trump eating a taco bowl and saying he “loves Hispanics Happy Cinco De Mayo!” when I read your post.

The look on Trumps face shows me Exactly how he wants to assimilate refugees into his growth and development.

I chased down some numbers for the “8 kids worth of payments makes you rich” bit:

The USA has plenty of people waiting to be productive like the people who lost their jobs at Carrier in Indiana but they’ve been tossed to the side by elitists limousine liberals who look down anyone with a tool belt. They can be productive in Syria or Mexico or Venezuela the shining example of socialist values.

I can refute parts of this claim:

For starters, SSA benefits require 40 quarters of participation, or basically 10 years. The minimum earning to get that are relatively low, about $4000 per year, but it’s not like you show up and get showered with money from day 1. Do people who have worked here for 10 years deserve a retirement? Seems reasonable to me…

I’m not sure about the hypothetical woman except to point out that she is described as working from age 20 to age 80, which seems like an unusual case right there. The SSA only factors your 35 highest earning years into the calculation. And the quoted text does say it’s a catch-22 based on a date of birth in 1924. So it has cherry-picked a highly unusual example, and I’d question whether that particular result applies to the other 99.9% of people.

Benefits for illegal aliens is false: SSI Spotlight on SSI Benefits for Noncitizens | Supplemental Security Income (SSI) | SSA discusses numerous ways for legal immigrants to get benefits.

However, you may also note that there’s a switch-up in terminology in that paragraph: It starts by saying “illegal alien” and then says “single refugee.” Yes, a lawfully present single refugee could get SSA benefits, but an illegal alien would not. The argument makes it sound like refugees and illegals are the same, but obviously they’re not.

The rest of the complaint then focuses on refugees throughout and is basically just good old-fashioned bigotry. Remember, the Syrian refugees could get it too! Heaven forbid, because what we really want are some good old-fashioned English refugees.

Anyway, refugee status is not like an anchor baby. You don’t sneak into the US and demand your refugee pension. The government chooses who it grants refugee status to, and I’m sure it turns away far too many of them.

Then vote for Bernie Sanders to restore the rightful place of the working people in the Democratic Party. Those elitist limousine liberals are not real liberals and I respect your average TRUMP voter much more then those traitors who deserve to be purged from our ranks.

Why People Vote for Trump

They’re remarkably candid, though…

Unlike Trump, Bernie Sanders never really took on the establishment. What sold me on Trump was his condemnation of George Bush and the Iraq war.

Sanders never really pounded Clinton over her Wall Street speeches and her email server. He never took on crony capitalists like Warren Buffett. He never criticized Ford for moving a plant to Mexico. He has never condemned Obama for a lack luster economy. It’s been a tepid campaign that’s driven more by his supporters than Sanders himself. Even now he could be screaming that election primary is rigged like Trump has and force a contested convention but he is too fearful. I can’t even remember what state Clinton last won. It seems like Sanders has won most of the primaries and keeps falling behind. No, Sanders is more of the same.

Or the minorities, or women, or the disabled.

Someone who isn’t smart enough not to alienate over 50% of the voters before getting the party nod really has very little chance of winning anything in November.

I’m a minority and nothing Trump has said has alienated me. Liberals and Progressives think they can control minorities by screaming racism at everything the opposition says and they’ve had some success. But when you are truly confident in yourself, you don’t respond to demagoguery. People hear what they want to hear.

(bolding mine)
Note to self-Get PCP mirror for Christmas.

Thanks! It’s a great view.:stuck_out_tongue:

The OP is right in saying that something like this started in Canada. The Canadian version contrasted how much a refugee gets versus the Canadian Old Age pension. I first came across it about 4 years ago. It has obviously crossed the border and morphed into an American version.

But for what it is worth, here is my answer. The trouble is, as Trump well knows, ignorance is a powerful weapon. It is much easier to yell that a refugee gets more than an old age pensioner than it is to examine the detailed reasons for the different amounts.

Leaving aside for a second whether the figures are right (they usually are NOT) let’s just ask why the amounts available to a refugee should be identical to the old age pension anway.???

Refugees arrive in Canada (or the US) with literally the clothes on their backs, usually warm weather clothing. A year ago, they probably never suspected they would have to leave their country and suddenly they find themslves smack dab in a Canadian winter.

They may have had to sacrifice their life savings just to get out of their country, or may have had their bank accounts seized by the new government back home. They may not even have toothbrushes with them.

In other words, their needs are immense, immediate and up front. But as soon as they can get winter clothing, an apartment, a change or underwear, their kids in school, etc.etc., their immense needs will rapidly decline and as soon as they get jobs they can start supporting themselves, contributing and paying taxes.

Old age pensioners (like me) have a completely different set of needs. For starters, I have known for 50 or 55 years that I would be getting an old age pension at 65. Besides, the OA pension is far from being my only source of retirement income. Like most Canadians, I have a pension from the contributory Canada Pension Plan as well as the pension plan from the place I worked in before retirement.

Unlike refugees, people who turn 65 don’t suddenly find themslves with nothing in the space of a few weeks. You still have clothes, furnitutre, a house or apartment, etc. These things don’t disappear just because you turn 65. You probably have savings in the bank and the government is not going to seize your funds.

So in other words, old age pensioners have a completely different set of needs. Perhaps they will receive less than the refugee who has just landed at the airport, but they will receive this amount for 20 or 30 years, until they die.

While the refugee can and probably will get off public assistance once he gets on his feet, the elderly will be needing more and more support programs as they get weaker and more vulnerable.

So why compare aid to refugees and old age pensions at all?

Bernie will make everyone poor. That is the goal of all socialists.