It is strange to call Bosniaks native to their own land “assimilated” - the prejudice in this is extraordinary. So we simply do not belong even when we are native to the region…
The Pakistani? On what basis is this said?
There is strong generational difference I have seen in the data, and it is the poorer Bangladeshi who have the most social exclusion problems, contre the more educated early generation Pakistani.
So much of this entire dialogue is driven by pure, blind religious prejudice.
And the OP, I suppose if it is not religious-ethnic bigotry pure and simple, he should be advocating to block also the African christians who do not meet his ideas…
In effect, is it not simply a return to the old arguments of the old pre 1960s reform of the American immigration policy, which held that the White Europeans being the Culturally Acceptable, only it is dressed up in the new language, dropping the racial for the more paletable framing.
You know that’s actually an impossible thing to decide, right? Immigration control as a way of stopping societal change is a completely doomed enterprise, because nobody has any control over that change, and whether you have or have not immigrants has very little to do with it.
Imagine what a Japanese person from 1917 would think of Japan right now. Or even the canonical “generation gap” of the 60’s - a fundamental disconnect between the pre-WWII generation and their own children. The difference between Germany in the '30s compared to the '80s (or now). I’m sure other countries have their examples. There’s no racial ‘general characteristics of a group’ and the *events *that are going to shape the next generation haven’t happened yet. Trying to plan for the next generation is a mirage. We need to do what’s right for people right now.
Ramira: high incidence of cousin marriage (55% of Pakistanis marry their own first cousins) with attendant birth defects, high crime rates particularly sex crimes, low rates of women working outside the home, and a high percentage of them who don’t socialize with non-muslims, think criticism should be illegal, and so forth.
As far as the crime rate go, this is not broken down by national origin or religion but only by race, but it demonstrates that South Asians in the UK commit sex crimes against minors at 11.5 times the rate of native British people. Quite possible that Hindu Indians are just as criminal as the Pakistanis on this front: after all, India has a very large rape problem of its own and you won’t ever hear me defend Indians for their enlightened attitudes towards women.
If trump had just instituted a temp ban fro any possible terrorist nation, no matter the religion, and had never said “Ban Muslims”, it likely would have sailed right thru.
Homozygosity compounds over time, so marrying a first cousin in a culture in which it’s a common practice (and in which you’re already likely to share more than the canonical 12.5% of your genes) is worse than doing so in a mostly outbred culture.
Two children of a brother sister pairing (in general, assuming no inbreeding in the past) will share 75% of their genes on average, but if you have repeated cycles of inbreeding then the relatedness will be much higher. In the highly inbred naked mole rate colonies (naked mole rats routinely inbreed), siblings are about 85-90% related, IIRC. (Anyone who has more up to date information is welcome to correct me).
In my ethnic group, a study from the 1960s suggested siblings shared about 52% of their genes on average as opposed to 50%, due to the practice of cousin marriage.
Hector_St_Clare, you do realize that the current Mayor of London is a Pakistani Muslim. While the initial immigrants likely had assimilation issues, I don’t think the painting of Pakistani Muslims as a whole, especially the 3rd and 4th generation of Pakistani Muslim British, as unassimilated is correct.
Here’s a recent book chapter on cousin marriage among British Pakistanis, with citations included. He quotes a 2013 study (Sheridan, 2013) that found 59% of babies born in Bradford were to first cousins, backing up the author’s own finding about 20 years earlier that found 59% consanguinity among Pakistanis in Oxford. Interestingly, the authors claim that rather than assimilating to British norms, the prevalence of consanguineous marriages has increased over time: in West Yorkshire as a whole the prevalence of first cousin marriages went from 33% to 55% between the first and second generations (Darr an Modell, 1988).
Here’s another paper from a University of Bradford researcher last year that states 50-60% consanguineous marriages across the UK as a whole “with first cousin marriages especially common”, and links this to the typical marriage practices in the region of Pakistan (Mirpur) from which a large proportion of British Pakistanis come.
As for the statutory rape rates, here’s a link to a liberal Pakistani newspaper that discusses the matter. They cite British government estimates between 2008-2012. Perpetrators were estimated as being 38% white, 32% unknown, 28% South Asian and 3% Black. Since the British population as a whole is 5% South Asian that works out to slightly over an 11-fold higher rate of offending among south Asians.
I think you’re wrong: I was unaware of this before tomndebb asked me for a citation, but the citation I found demonstrates that in certain regards, like cousin marriage, the younger generation Pakistani British is less interested in assimilating to English norms than their parents. Cousin marriage is increasing over time, not decreasing.
I don’t know that much about Sadiq Khan’s politics but it’s clear that the existence of some counterexamples doesn’t obviate a more general trend. The existence of some white southern evangelicals who vote Democrat doesn’t make the statement “White Southern Evangelicals are Republican” any less true.
Believe it or not, the vast majority of countries in the world considered women to be second class citizens until fairly recently. It wasn’t that long ago that an American woman lost her citizenship for marrying a foreign man. She could reapply for citizenship if her husband naturalized. That’s in THIS country. You are applying a standard to the rest of the world that we would not have met two generations ago.
Korea, China, Japan, and India are all places where women were considered second class citizens until recently. And when they move here, they do not make America less egalitarian, we make them more egalitarian. I don’t know any second generation Koreans that are anywhere near as sexist as my parents were.
Noone and I mean Noone is going to watch an immigrant treat his wife like shit and think “Hey, I should be doing that!”