I certainly don’t think so - in fact, I wish more people were like that as far as approaching the whole thing with intelligence and in a dispassionate way. Two snaps up to you! 
Oh no, not at all. You sound like a perfect gentleman. Why, I bet you even take the dishes out of the sink before you pee in it.
Whoa. I need to start doing vanity posts. I haven’t read this thread yet, but I will wade in soon.
Page 1::
I never said that it’s my opinion homosexuality is “wrong”. If you read the linked thread I compare my child being born homosexual to being born deaf. I wouldn’t want it to happen. I wouldn’t be happy about it. But, I wouldn’t love the child any less.
Sure, it has precident. My uncle has MS. I don’t tell him that he’s unnatural and twisted. I have bad vision, I don’t consider myself unatural and twisted. Homosexuals have a broken sexual identity. They join the long list of people that aren’t perfect in the world. Why, because I am willing to aknowledge this, do you assume that I will be an asshole to them?
lezlers:
Agreed.
And right next to that post there is Tremmie who argues that being against homosexual marriage makes one both an idiot and a bad person.
That would mean that 60 odd percent of the people in the US are both idiots and bad people. I understand it is difficult to be gay and I sypathize, but lashing out indiscriminately at all those who don’t share your exact same viewpoint on the matter is just as bigoted as what blame others of doing to you.
Jodi nailed it with a great post.
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I see that Siege is accusing me of attacking without cause in the other thread. He is not the first to point this out.
When I entered the thread there was already a debate going on. I simply said that despite being an athiest, I am not a supporter of the homosexual agenda. I pointed out that it wasn’t only a religious issue.
This simple statement resulted in Kalhoun saying “shame on me”. musicguy said we were “ranting about an agenda”. jlzania and Homebrew wanted an explanation. Rysler said my post “took [his] breath away”. Kalhoun asked again for what I meant by a “gay agenda”. MrVisible said in response to my post “Hate: It’s not just for Christians anymore!”
So, I responded with my thoughts on the issue. That’s what the SDMB is for. I listed what parts of the “gay agenda” I had problems with since I was asked about a half dozen times for it.
Now, in this thread, I am accused of attacking without cause in that thread. Sheesh. Many members of the SDMB are so sensitive to these issues that any disagreement is equivilent to hating and bashing of them. It’s just not.
What happened to me in that thread, and happens to lots of folks on the board regarding gay issues is totally over the top. It’s like if there was such a large consensus on the boards about health care that anyone saying they are against socialized medicine was immediately labelled a baby murderer and cancer supporter. It’s closed minded and not a good way to fight ignorance.
No you said it’s defective. Synonyms for defective include
If you think “wrong” is not a fair characterization of “defective” that’s certainly an (intellectually shoddy and dishonest) opinion you’re entitled to.
matt’s point still stands unanswered by you: in order for you to treat a gay child of yours with the same compassion as you would treat your straight child, you would have to conceal in every aspect of your interaction with that child your opinion that homosexuality is “defective” from the moment of that child’s birth. More, you would be required to be actively supportive of gay issues, including same-sex marriage, because otherwise you’re not concealing your disdain for homosexuality and presenting yourself as being equally compassionate for your gay child’s concerns. In other words, every moment of that child’s existence would require that you live a lie. I like irony as much as the next guy, but I don’t think for a moment you could pull off that kind of a lie, and if you could, what kind of model is that for your children?
First off, fuck you. Second, cite that a homosexual sexual identity is a “broken” sexual identity? Third, you are an asshole because it has been presented to you time and again that your understanding of the facts of human sexuality are in error and yet you continue to cling to them.
As for your boo-hoo poor pitiful me routine, that eyewash doesn’t sell. You think it’s hard getting called on the carpet on a fucking message board? Try living it 24/7 from the moment you realize your sexuality isn’t the mainstream. Do you understand how bone-wearyingly tiring it is to slog through your particular brand of shit day after day, month after month, year after year? Do you understand how frustrating it is to be presented with someone who, while otherwise seeming rational, pops off with “I’m against gay people getting married even though it has no effect on me whatsoever, and oh by the way I’m getting married in the spring”?
You were better off staying out of this thread…
The fact that I consider homosexuality a sexual defect doesn’t mean I think that it’s “wrong”. Post as many dictionary quotes as you want, but you are only putting words in my mouth that I didn’t say.
I think deafness is a defect. I think that conjoined twins have a defect. Do you consider me to opine that these things are “wrong” as well?
This is false. You are presenting a false dichotomy.
I must either “conceal in every aspect of your interaction with that child your opinion that homosexuality is defective from the moment of that child’s birth” or be a huge bigot, is that it?
According to you, I would also be required to be supportive of every single issue on the gay agenda including gay marriage if I had a gay child? Where do you get this from? This is exactly what I’m talking about. I must agree with every single issue on the gay agenda, or I’m labelled a bigot. There is no middle ground, or room for any disagreement.
It’s my opionon and it’s obvious to any reasonable person. It’s debateable that people are born gay, I guess. But, IMO, they are. Something in their brain is wired incorrectly and they are attracted to members of the same sex.
It’s funny that you accuse me of doing a pity routine right as you launch into one yourself. It’s a perfect example of what people are saying in this thread. Disagree with anything regarding homosexuality and you become singly responsible for every problem that gays face in America.
Yeah, those black folk…they must be defective since the correct skin color is kind of a peachy-beige…
Do you even read your own posts? You even say in this very post that "Something in their brain is wired incorrectly and they are attracted to members of the same sex. " “Incorrectly” is a synonym for wrong, is it not?
Yep.
Bigotry is unreasonable hate or fear of difference, and if you tell your child that he is “broken” or “defective” merely because he is gay, then yes, you’re being a bigot. That’s not a “false dichotomy,” it’s what the word “bigot” freakin’ means!
Of course, there’s room for disagreement, but not for disagreement that is predicated on dismissing the innate worth and dignity of gay people.
Sorry, pal, but you don’t get to vote on my worth as a human being. Moreover, being gay is not a defect, any more than being left-handed is a defect. Unlike deafness or conjoined twins, there is no loss of function or damage to quality of life associated with homosexuality. Being gay is merely a variation, like having freckles or being able to wiggle your ears.
Here’s an analogy: I despise the taste of licorice, some people absolutely love it. Should I declare that my detestation for licorice gives me the right to ban Twizzlers from the people who love it? Shall I make a law that two people shall not be allowed to share a packet of Red Vines merely because I don’t like the stuff?
First, you can’t “disagree with homosexuality” any more than you can disagree with the rain–it simply is.
Second, yeah, if you contribute to the atmosphere of hate, if you support prejudice against gay people, then yes, you are, in your own special way, doing your part to make the lives of gay people just that much harder.
I was going to respond to Debaser’s latest round of bullshit but for the most part it turned into a “me too” of gobear’s post, so I will hold my response to
“Something in their brain is wired incorrectly” is not stated as an opinion. It is stated as a fact. Cite your source for the “fact” please.
Jeez, it’s so simple they teach it on Sesame Street.
Remember the old short about the bird and the owl who shared a tree?
“It’s not Strange. It’s just Different.”
If the words have the same exact meaning, then why do you need to substitute them? Why not just stick to what I actually said?
Saying homosexuality is a sexual defect is much different than saying homosexuality is wrong.
Why do you assume I would tell this hypothetical child this? I wouldn’t beat the kid over the head about it any more than I would if he or she were deaf.
Actually, the false dichotomy Otto presented was that I must be actively supportive of all gay issues including gay marriage or not love the child. This is silly and false.
This is what I don’t get. How am I dismissing the innate worth or dignity of anyone? Am I dismmissing the dignity and worth of deaf people when I say that not having the ability to hear is a defect?
Again. Where is it that I am voting on anybody’s worth as a human being?
I have been anticipating this argument. On this I am sure, we will have to simply disagree. But, here is my take on it:
One loss of function is simple. Breeding. People are meant to be attracted to the opposite sex so that they have sex and there is more people. Homosexuals are instead attracted to the same sex. This is a variation. This variation is a defect, since it’s not the way that nature intended. The loss of function and damage to quality of life is difficult to quantify, but it is there.
I didn’t say I did. I said “anything regarding” homosexuality. (Hate crime laws, gay marriage, etc)
How am I contributing to an atmosphere of hate? I have said repeatedly, and I mean it: I don’t hate gay people. I don’t dislike gay people.
Your continued insistence that any disagreement with any aspect of gay issues makes me a bigot is insane. I understand that gay people have a tough road to travel, but you are doing to me exactly what you say you despise about the way you are treated. If you want to make the world a more tolerant and understanding place, maybe you should start with yourself.
You use of “tolerant” is an obscenity. Resisting being called “defective” and “broken” is not intolerant; it is standing up for one’s rights as a citizen and one’s value as a human being. Asking to not be hit is not intolerant; asking not to be called “fag” is not intolerant, asking for the same rights that hetero folks enjoy is not intoelrant.
I will never accept that being “tolerant” means allowing myself to be regarded as inferior. I don’t care if bigots get hurt feelings because I fend off the hand that hits me.
Or pats up patronizingly on the top of the head while feeding us the globs of bone and fat that are left on the plate of rights after they’re done enjoying theirs.
“Pats us”, not “up”… :smack:
I’m gay. I have a son. He turned 6 yesterday. You “arguement” is baseless. And idiotic.
Happy belated birthday to Li’l Homebrew!
posted by Debaser
Says who? To be annoying: Cite?
Well, you’re certainly intolerant of the simple truth, that’s for sure.
UnuMondo
And what truth would that be? Pray explain.