Why the hell can't some of you accept a differing opinion on homosexuality?

Who’s rights as a citizen am I trampling? Who’s value as a human being have I questioned? Who have I hit? When did I call someone names?

It just doesn’t make sense to lump me into the same category as the most mindless of bigots simply because I don’t agree with you 100% on everything regarding gay issues.

It’s too bad that your experiences have left you in such a position that you are incapable of thinking rationally regarding gay issues. Which is pretty much the point of this thread that the OP stated. Having any opinion on homosexuality besides complete agreement with you makes me a bigot and beneath contempt. I am immediately placed in the same category in your mind as those who hate and hurt gays.

Not only that, but haven’t there been animal studies indicating that homosexual animals increase the probability that their siblings’ offspring will survive, because those that don’t breed are able to assist in the care and raising of said offspring?

And, as a woman attracted to men (and women) I find it really offensive to be told that my sexuality is as it is because I’m meant to be a breeder.

I do not want kids. Ever. am I “broken”?

Polycarp and his wife could not have kids, does that make them “broken”?

Sheesh.

My post was supposed to follow gum’s - how dare the rest of you step in first!

:wink:

It’s funny how pretty much all arguments against homosexuality look an awful lot like after-the-fact justifications for someone’s feeling of “ick” when they think of it.

That’s a great basis for law and morality, ain’t it?!

Or, people are meant to have lots of sex, and some people are defective in that when they have sex, they concieve a child which interferes with their purpouse in life (having sex). In this regard, straight people are the broken ones.

I’d like to think that this example will demonstrate the fallacy of assuming that humanity as a purpouse beyond what we as individuals choose, but if you don’t have the critical thinking capacity to notice this on your own, being led to it probably won’t help.

jayjay -

“Eew, gross” is not exactly sound legal reasoning - Carrie Tilton-Jones

Wow, you’re just a total liar, aren’t you? Whine some more about how people are putting words in your mouth, you fuck, and be sure to link back to your multiple examples of your putting words in my mouth that I never said.

I refer you to Biological Exuberance a discussion and catalog of homosexuality and homosexual behaviour observed in non-human species. I also direct you to the idea that since large numbers of people are born sterile, it is entirely possible that “nature intended” that not every member of a species reproduce. There is also the theory of “kin selection,” by which non-reproductive members of a species work to ensure the survival of the offspring of their kin, thus ensuring that some of their genetic material survives to the next generation.

In legal terms (since we are talking marriage here) I refer you to the decisions of the Mass, Vermont and Hawaii supreme courts, all of which soundly reject the notion that bearing and raising children is a sufficient state interest in barring same-sex marriage. Since children born to same-sex couples or present in families headed by same-sex couples from previous relationships number in the millions by some estimates, procreation is actually an argument in favor of same-sex marriage so as to provide those children with the stability and security of a legally recognized two-parent home.

By supporting those who do hate us.

Calling me “broken” and “defective” sure sounds like being called names. And the rest was a metaphor for heterosexist attitudes; I shall try to write simpler prose that you can follow. My apologies.

Apart from my being defective and broken and not the way nature intended, you mean?

There is a difference in degree between you and those who hit or hurt gays, not a difference in kind. What you persistently fail to understand is that you are not tolerant by being patronizing and condescending to me and mine. When you call us defective, you are not only wrong, but hurtful.

I support your right to marriage. Do you support mine?

You know, there’s a very simple solution to the “eeew!” reaction:

See, I am not attracted by the idea of having sex with another chick. So you know what?

I DON’T DO IT!!! Amazing, isn’t it?

See, I’m also grossed out by mayonnaise-I think it’s Satan’s snot. So I don’t eat it.

Wow!

:rolleyes:

Because homosexuality is an exception to the SDMB’s nothing illegal rule.

You need to keep up with the news. Lawrence v. Texas overthrew the anti-sodomy laws.

No, no, Guin—mayonaisse is Satan’s pus. Pesto sauce is Satan’s snot.

Excuse me? What the hell is that supposed to mean? Since when is homosexuality illegal?

Hey: Crayola said it, I believe it, that settles it.

Just wait. The way things are going… :frowning:

So that’s a yes, I’m a homophobe? Please clarify what name you are calling me.

You know, I kind of think all of the “but I don’t hate gays enough to be a homophobe” stuff is sort of disingenuous. We don’t really make much of a distinction between some octogenarian who still uses the phrase “nigger in the woodpile” and the Christian Identity folks as far as initial shock and disgust go, do we?

Same deal, as far as I’m concerned. And in another 30 years, same deal as far as society is concerned, I’m sure.

You folks might want to start positioning yourselves for the transition early…

The point I’ve made to Debaser before, in the thread linked on page one, is that it’s foolish and self-deceptive to come up with a way that you think the world should be that makes nice, simple sense, then to apply it to the world and see if the world fits it.

It’s a simple, easy-to understand, flawless model that all people follow these rules:

  • Are born male or female
  • Develop attraction to a single member of the opposite gender
  • Pair with that person for the rest of their lives
  • Produce children
  • GOTO 10

And there are many, many extrapolations that are made from this model. The problem is, as simple as it is, it doesn’t fit. People ARE NOT like this. Some fit the model, but many do not. But because we’ve placed social, habitual, religious, and ‘moral’ importance on this model, we declare the elements of reality that don’t fit it to be abnormal.

When we study the behaviour of primates or penguins or butterflies, we’re open to the idea that the models we’ve built don’t fit. As we learn more about these animals, as we watch them do what comes naturally, we modify our conclusions and come up with better, if less simple descriptions of “The Way Things Are”.

But with people, it’s very common for us to choose the conclusions, and then try to fit the subject of our study into it.

It’s a game of fundamentalism, really. But subtle and disguised.

When Debaser or others declare, as upthread a bit, that such-and-such a human trait or characteristic is “Not what nature intended”, this is what they are doing. They are studying an animal, seeing unexpected behaiour, and declaring it to be aberrant, rather than considering that it might actually be the way these animals behave.

What I want to know is, who told you what nature intended? Who told you nature has preferred outcomes for what it does, but nonetheless occasioanlly makes mistakes? The same mistakes over and over again, no less.

Is it easier to think that people can fall in love with each other, or to think that people can only fall in love in this and that specific way? Or is it more sensible to assume that only this and that are proper, and individuals exhibiting other behaviour are defective?

Remember, after all, that ‘homosexuality’ is characterised by an ability to fall in love with and be physically attracted to members of one’s own gender. It is not characterised by an inability or lack of desire to have children, as people like Homebrew can attest. And since there exist individuals with orientations most everywhere in between the ‘straight’ and ‘gay’ ends of the scale, it seems simpler to imagine that, like eye colour, this is an example of continuous variation of a trait, rather than a genetic/chemical error in phenotype expression.

By the way, I to eagerly await UnuMondo’s “simple truth”. I

BE CAREFUL…

…lest even your THOUGHTS bear any NEGATIVE emotion about homosexuality.

Though the police and criminal justice system in your hometown don’t know it, your THOUGHTS constitute the potential threat of a “HATE CRIME” - so, ssshhhhh…be very, very careful.

If even the IDEA, alone, of homosexual sex causes a negative response of any kind, YOU ARE A HOMOPHOBE and fundamentally incapable of love or caring or rationality.

Didn’t you know?

Get modern.
Get hip.
Get now.
Get politically correct.
Get sociologically ‘aware.’
Redefine the paradigm of your value system.
Get your THOUGHTS in order!!!

Remember a guy named Jesus saying that even if LOOK at a women with lust you are already an adulterer? By the same logic, if you even THINK homosexuality is wrong, for any reason, you are already a HOMOPHOBE and subject to all of the condemnation society can deal you.

So…shhhhh…

Exactly, and of course, you know what Jesus said about homosexuality, don’t you?