But **Cicero **is talking of a culture, not a post.
I stand by my original advice to the OP
“Just move on. She’s not worth it.”
Yes. And an important part of the culture is that the insults are confined to the Pit, otherwise posters get Warned and eventually Banned so they can’t participate in the culture.
Maybe I am not understanding you.
And I probably shouldn’t get sucked into this damn trainwreck anyway. twickster should have apologized instead of that dumb Mod Note, living_in_hell was perfectly within her rights to start a thread asking for an apology, and ever since has been doing everything in her power to make me hope she never gets it. Coupled with the usual pile-on on twickster.
What a fucking fiasco. Can’t anyone handle a mistake with some kind of grace?
Y’all are setting me a bad example for the next time I fuck up.
Regards,
Shodan
I’m not sure what there is to understand. I think this whole thing has been blown way out of proportion by a handful of posters who have a severe hate-on for twickster.
I actually find that the board culture is far *less *snarky/insulting than it was when I first started posting here, and I rather miss it. manhattan, of course, being the classic delightfully curmudgeonly moderator, but others had some shining moments as well.
But I like Lewis Black and George Carlin and Don Rickles and Cecil Adams, so when I found a message board full of folks who also like that sort of humor, and practice that sort of humor, I stayed. Not sure why anyone who doesn’t like it would stay. Of course they’re welcome to, but I have to scratch my head when they then complain about it.
It’s like people who buy a house next to an airport and then complain about the noise.
Just for clarity, I have nothing against twickster and really have no comment about her actions.
My concern really comes back to an underlying - as I called it “culture” - around some of the Mod staff to belittle members when it isn’t required.
I enjoy witty responses as much as anyone. Manhattans well known retort was a classic- it was clever, it was a put down, it was called for and in order.
(And I see WhyNot has just answered as well so I will leave this as it stands)
I thought the original complaint was valid. The insult was jarring to me when I saw it and was very disappointed by the response. Of course the actions of l_i_h are overshadowing it. But the history of the poster should not excuse the behavior of others. There is a nice little Pit thread for that.
I don’t really understand what’s so hard about this.
The problem isn’t the snark. The problem is that the rules are different for the moderators than they are for the rank and file, such that the moderators get away with behavior that would merit a warning for any other generic long-time poster.
So, it’s more like buying a house next to an airport, and then getting a noise citation on the first offence because the airport complained that you revved up your car in your driveway once.
What Loach and Cicero said.
Regards,
Shodan
ANY other long term poster? No. A few long term posters say they’ve received Warnings instead of notes, but this long term poster has received notes, not warnings, for insults in the wrong forum. I’ve seen a *lot *of long term posters get notes, not warnings, for insults in the wrong forum. Especially if the insult is mild and, well, appropriate. She *was *acting like a twat in that thread. Yes, I get that twickster should have taken it to the Pit and not namecalled there, but come on, already.
And, y’know, a single Warning has about as much impact as that time you got a note on your Permanent Record for sticking a pencil up your nose in third grade. If a poster is butthurt over one Warning, I don’t really know what to say about that.
*It’s not faaaaaaiiiiirrr! *is a cry that makes me roll my eyes when it comes from children, nevermind alleged adults. Sure, it may not be fair. But it’s also not important.
One does not have to be butthurt or whining about something to notice that it’s unfair.
Also, accusations of same are approximately as eyeroll-inducing as anyone actually whining would be.
A possible solution for everyone is the Post-Note pattern, for example:
I post “You are a twat”
But my “signature” has me covered:
[Guest Note]
RaftPeople, c’mon, you know you can’t post what you just posted in this post, don’t do it again.
[/Guest Note]
living_in_hell, it would help if you got her name right. It’s Twickster, not Twackster. Just sayin’.
Also, post 21, wait, is that a huge post of you quoting Quasimodem, without marking or attributing it? Because it reads like you going off on a bender against Quasimodem for some unknown offence. That explains why it is vaguely familiar. If so, you really should learn how to post. First off, you should have marked the damn thing as a quote so we would know that. But even more so, you would have been better off just linking the post and saying “Oh, wasn’t this you?” or something. But third, you probably shouldn’t have brought it up at all.
Before the prior thread was closed, I posted
To which Czarcasm replied
What I wished to reply is, How the Fuck should I know what happened behind the scenes?
Here’s the thing from my ethics training at work. It’s not enough to be ethical, it’s also important that you not give the appearance of not being ethical.
In this situation, if a moderator does something that requires public sanction, it should be done by someone else, not the moderator in question.
I realize there may be a concern that a public sanction of a mod may inspire lack of confidence in that mod, or foster the denizens that would tally up all a mod’s past mistakes and flaunt them in their face. But the thing is, that is going to happen anyway when a moderator makes multiple mistakes. There’s no avoiding that response.
But hiding all evidence of internal sanctions behind the wall of administration does not reduce friction or keep the troubles out of view, it only gives the appearance that the administration doesn’t care about moderator behavior, or that moderators are allowed to get away with breaking rules that other members cannot.
If the mod breaks the rule, then let someone else make the appropriate public alert to that fact. It comes off far more ethical and fair, rather than the mod in question give herself a hand slap. “Oops, I shouldn’t have done that, shame on me” doesn’t come off nearly as convincing as an oversight from someone else. Especially when that mod has a history of bad calls, overreactions, and generally stirring things up.
I’m not saying this to pile on Twickster. In the past, I’ve defended her. And I think whatever history she has of moderating is a separate issue from this topic. The topic in question is how the administration of this board handles sanctioning its own staff.
I am okay with moderators and admins discussing this behind close doors to get the full story, to come to agreement, whatever. But if a moderator (any moderator, not just this incident) has violated a board rule, to the degree that any other poster would be sanctioned by a mod, it is appropriate that that moderator receive a similar sanction, and as publically as any other board member.
Otherwise, it creates the appearance of a double standard. And as I said, it doesn’t matter if the double standard is real or not if the actions of the staff create that appearance, that is the reputation they will have.
I love this board. I have defended the mods far more often than not. But this is a situation where I think the administration of this board would be better served by a different policy, one of open even-handed treatment of the mods.
And if that makes a recurring problem of a particular mod repeatedly getting sanctioned more visible, that suggests that the admins should then address that problem as well.
From this thread,
Your hostility suggests that the personal problem in this thread is yours.
I don’t know about the rules but it’s really not cool to purposely change someones username.
Actually it was. Damn, maybe you should call James Randi.
You are right. I apologize for jumping to conclusions.
This post is too smart for me so let’s just assume you are correct.
I find twickster to be an interesting and engaging poster and a terrible moderator. I don’t hate her, but I think she’s in the wrong position. Unfortunately, it’s been made very clear that the board administration isn’t going to do anything about that, and she’ll remain a mod until she decides on her own to step down. That’s just the way it is, and these endless threads aren’t going to do anything to change it.
I like these guys too, but they (Manhattan included) aren’t (or weren’t) so thin-skinned that they can’t handle people responding to their snark in kind. The board is, in general, less snarky than it was 10 years ago, and most of the mods have gone along with that change. Not all of them have, and new rules create an imbalance of power in those exchanges. If you aren’t allowed to direct snark at somebody, it’s reasonable to expect them to extend the same courtesy to you, even when they’re not required to. If they don’t choose to extend you that courtesy, it’s natural to get a little rankled about that.
I am sorry for my harsh words. They were undeserved. They would be undeserved if addressed to anyone in my circle of friends, and I truly regret what I wrote, Twicks and I ask you here to forgive me if you can.
Additionally, which one of you wants to step up and take on this shitty job?
Quasimodem
I was in the wrong because those were hateful words and I am not, by nature, a hateful person. It borders on emotional abuse (or whatever that’s called) and I wouldn’t even talk to anyone in real life that way.
Yes, I get angry, and yes, I have meltdowns (more in real life than here), but I was way out of line in talking (writing) that way to another human being and I am sorry for it.
Q
Quasi, this was long past and long resolved. You don’t need to feel bad all over again
Please don’t use my horrible words as a weapon against one of our mods. I don’t know if I can forbid it, but for now I am asking nicely and asking you to try to work things out.
For the sake of our family.
Please, okay?
Thanks
Q
Then why did YOU repost it again? Living_in_hell was taken to task by several posters here. She has given an apology for using that particular post. You could have snipped the quote in your reply. Hell, you could have just addressed her by name, but not quoted the post. Why repost it now?
Twickster, apparently; she just doesn’t feel particularly inclined to do it adequately.