Ok, so I’m a cheating whore. Except that it was an emotional affair. We never had sex, actively went out of our way to not have sex. Wait, let me start at the start.
I have a guy I’ve been friends with for 2 years. My husband isn’t the sociable type, so we don’t hang out with other couples or really, do much at all, so my friend and I haven’t spent much time outside of work together except on the phone. I tell him he should be gay because he’s a great gay boyfriend. Well, something changed, I approached him about it to tell him where I was coming from in the spirit of “things that are known are better than the unknown” I’m a head things off at the pass kind of gal and I’ve always had guy friends, worked in guy dominated environments and I’ve never once crossed over from friend to “more” with someone. So I was not prepared for what happened emotionally.
What I have been trying to wrap my addled little brain around is that Friend was so different from my husband. I love my husband dearly, but he doesnt’ like to do much of anything, he can be pretty self-absorbed and tends to not be emotionally available, I say this too, I’ve always known that he loves me. I know he always will. I’ve never doubted that as I’ve never doubted I love him. That is who he is.
Now logically, if I went to an auto parts store to buy bananas, folks would think I’m an idiot. The things that I got from Friend are things my husband is not capable of, it does not make me love him any less, it just leaves me feeling unfulfilled.
So the part of me that remembers old movie women saying things like “Men and women should live next door and visit often” go rolling around my head. Things like, expecting one person to be able to give you everything you need is unrealistic. And the mother of all “Can’t I have them both?”
Please understand, I realize these are things I should have thought of before I got married. I know I’m a cheating whore, I’m completely accepting of that, really.
We (friend and I) did joke about wouldn’t it be nice if we could talk our spouses into polygamy. I would love for him to live next door. I did tell my husband that I want them both. I’m a freak, I’m ok with that. Hubby and I have often joked about us letting Norm Abrams move in. Heck, a few months ago, I told him I was going to leave him for a carpenter, an electrician, a painter and a plumber. He asked if he could come back when the work was done, I told him “Of course baby, you know I love you.”
So, my appaling backstory out of the way. I don’t want our marriage to continue the way that it was. I know my husband is going to try like hell to address my needs more. I know if it is possible, he will do so. I just don’t think it is possible because that just isn’t how he is. It doesn’t make me love him less, it just makes it harder to live with long term. I honestly believe I will die his wife.
In researching polygamy (ages ago) and reading the various threads here, it seems like it is either a mormon thing or a sex thing. Tell me what it is really like. How different are your partners? Do each of them fulfill different needs? Is it really possible to love someone with all your heart and love someone else too? Can it address the things mentioned here?
Auntbeast, your husband put you through hell while he was addicted to drugs last year.. I’d say that makes it pretty understandable that you feel you’ve given enough, and that he owes you…something, something more then he’s currently giving you.
I know a Dutch couple in the Netherlands, now in their 60’s, the parents of a friend of mine. Their marriage always had been to some extent an open marriage, (nothing outrageous though) with the wife, “Jill” being the life of the party, and her husband " Serge" tagging along. Then the husband, Serge had a bad fight with alcoholism that lasted several years and that nearly destroyed his marriage and, to an extent, his kids in their puberty years. He spent months in a rehab-clinic untill he had his addiction under control. While this went on, his wife Jill found comfort with a friend of her, “Roger”. Jill stayed married to Serge, but somehow the balance of power had shifted and it was clear who was the weaker of the two. Serge knew he really wasn’t in a position to demand anything of Jill, least of all that she dump Roger. So Jill kept a relationship with Roger on the side, going on short trips with Roger two or three a few times a year. She never was " in your face" about it to Serge, and Serge was okay with it. Roger was satisfied with the time he spent with Jill; I’m not sure if he had another relationship. This arrangement went on for 15 or more years, untill Jill and Serge divorced permanently and moved to separate houses some 5 years ago. They are still friends though, and vacation together often.
There is an anecdote that illustrates the weakness of Serge. Jill had already moved out of their home, and Serg had a few days to move out his stuff as well before the new owners would arrive. Serge felt so helpless in the face of this task, that he arranged nothing at all, no movers, no van, no boxes, and just tried not to think about it. On the last day, when Jill was planning to check on the house one last time, Serge slit his wrists (ineffectively) a few minutes before she was to arrive. :rolleyes: So Jill found him unconscious (or drunk) wiht the house unpacked. She was incredible annoyed, let an ambulance take Serge away and into a clinic, and then she organized friends and professional help and had the house empty and clean witin two days.
I’m another example, but my situation is different. I had an amicable divorce from my SO two years ago. I’m still not sure as to why I initiated the divorce, but part of it is that I wanted kids, and part of it is that my relationship with my SO had started to feel brother-sistery. But I still love my ex-SO, he loves me, and I have the deepest respect for him, although the sexual attraction between us is gone, at least from my side. At the time of our divorce we both had another SO, though, although for him his GF (that he still has) was a " second relation" and he was devastated that I wanted my “second relation” to become my primary and only relationship.
Anyway, the house next to my ex came up for sale five months ago. I talked about it a lot with my ex and my current fiancé, and we all agreed it would have benefits if I bought that house. So I’m going to be living nextdoor to my ex starting next month. It feels like moving nextdoor to my dearest older brother though, and I like that, because I’m not close to my other familymembers.
OK, let me try to answer things in no particular order.
Every relationship is different. You tend to hear the wilder ones, because we quiet folks are…well…quiet. Imagine if all you knew of heteromonomarriage was Brittney and Kevin and Anna Nicole Smith and the guy older than god. You might come away thinking that it’s all about the stud fees and kept women. Of course, it’s not. It’s different for each couple.
Absolutely different partners fulfill different needs. And those needs may range from the big ones, like my husband wanted to have kids, too - to the little ones, like he doesn’t like barbeque but I don’t want to go to the restaurant alone.
Can 99% of those needs be met without sex? Yes. Can they be met without some level of intimacy? Not always. I, personally, need that freedom in my life to follow the relationship to levels of intimacy that might make a monogamous person unhappy. This might just mean sitting in a corner with someone at a party holding hands and looking through the CD collection together while we talk about our childhoods - body language and verbal intimacy that a perfectly normal, not insanely jealous monogamous husband might very rightly be bothered by.
Do I have sex with other men? Occasionally, but not nearly as often as y’all seem to think. In almost seven years of marriage, there have been less than half a dozen other men.
It is absolutely positively possible for many people to love more than one person with all their heart. God (or gods, or nature) has given us unlimited love, probably the best gift ever. If it wasn’t so, people wouldn’t have more than one kid. Do you get mad at one at the same time you temporarily favor another? Sometimes. Does that mean you don’t love them? Nope. Anger is not antithetical to love.
Now, enough about me. On to you. This is dangerous ground you’re treading on, m’lady. Think about this sentence; ponder it for a few nights, separate from any other issue: “I don’t want our marriage to continue the way that it was.” Is this literally true? Because it’s very, very likely that if you tell your husband what you’re feeling, your marriage will end. Not transform, not improve, not change, but end. Finito. Kaput. IMHO, you should ONLY bring it up if you’re willing to lose him from your life completely.
But that’s awful! The reason you want to open your marriage is because you still love your husband! If you didn’t, you’d just leave him for this other guy, and maybe be poly from the start! Right. I get that. But this is a huge paradigm shift to bring into a marriage. If your husband is like 90% of Americans, he’s not going to be OK with it.
It can be hard to remember, reading internet sites where it’s normalized, but this way of life is weird.
If you decide to go there, I’d recommend testing the waters. Tell him you know this Doper who has an open marriage and there have been some interesting (and heated) threads. See what he says. He may say, “Shit, that’s crazy talk! I could never stay with some bitch who was sucking other guys’ cocks!” Then you’ll know to shut your trap or end the marriage. He may say, “Huh. That’s interesting. How do they handle XYZ?” and you may sense a glimmer of openness. Only you can judge from there.
To end, I’ll repeat what I do in every poly thread: Be honest and open, not only with everyone else, but with yourself. Don’t talk *yourself *into it. When you feel jealousy (and you will), ask yourself what it’s about, what you feel is being threatened or taken away from you, and address that, don’t attack the other person.
I wish you luck, darling. It’s a heck of a lot easier to be in a relationship that’s open from the start than to open one up later. I’ll be here to answer any questions I can or offer cyber hugs when it all goes kablooey.
Oh, except that I won’t be here much today or tomorrow. It’s my birthday, so there are activities all weekend. I’ll try to touch in again tonight, but it’ll be late.
One of the reasons I am so raw right now is because it isn’t in my nature to lie or cheat. I’ve never cheated on anyone. Some would argue I haven’t “really” cheated on my husband. (FWIW, this relationship only lasted a few weeks, the friendship for years). I told my husband I was coming clean and I wasn’t going to lie and he knows me well enough to know that if he asks a question, I will answer it. Or as I told him, I will tell the truth until your ears bleed. I have told him it won’t continue. I have told him I want them both. I have told him that I never had any intention of leaving him. I have told him that I told my friend I loved him. He has not asked if I still do.
Maastrict: you are correct. I do know there is a correlation. I know the anger that I have felt, the betrayal, the loss of trust. I know I’ve spent the last year helping my husband recover and supporting him in any way I can. There probably is tomes to be written on the fact that the first time I kissed my friend was my husbands one year clean date. He has been clean for a year. He has done a lot. But I’ve been neglected. I went through fire for him. I’ve put up with the random drug tests, the sitting in crappy parking lots while he went to meetings. I’ve survived his being laid off. I’m the one who sits at home with a baby and no car because we had to sell his car to keep our house.
He sees these as two separate issues. I don’t. I think I deserve the right to be told I’m beautiful, even if it is just to him. I deserve the right to be listened to. I don’t think it is too much to ask to take me to dinner because I want to go. I think I’ve earned it. The thing is, I suck at asking people for anything. I always have. If I don’t like to ask, I despise begging. Especially since I feel like I shouldn’t even have to ask. It is an odd incongruence that I know that my husband loves me and I’ve never doubted it and yet I can feel so invisible to him. I can understand what he did while he was addicted, I can’t understand what he’s done while sober. I’ve tried to relay that I could not have cheated on him with a piece of shit. I couldn’t have gone out and fucked a stranger. I wouldn’t have put it all at risk for nothing. Just as he would not have. It wasn’t about the sex (which works out, cause I didn’t get any) it was about walking up to someone and them telling me I take their breath away. Them noticing I’ve lost weight and they are worried. Them being emotionally vulnerable to me. Them reading my favorite book because I told them to.
I don’t have a damn thing other than memories of being appreciated, valued and respected. I can’t throw it away, I can’t forget what it is like and I know how I felt when I was getting my cake and eating it too. I was happier. I was calmer.
My marriage looks like it will survive my betrayal. We are trying. I don’t know if it will survive the emotional emptiness I feel if my husband does not change.
I’ve asked about polygamy even though I know it is nothing my husband would ever allow. I just sit here and know that there has to be a better way and that I would love to find that better way holding my husbands hand and heart. Nothing would make me happier than for him to be all that I need him to be. Need. Not want. Until recently, I’ve been everything he needed me to be and done more than most people think was necessary.
My role models are George Burns and Gracie Allen. If my husband dropped dead tomorrow, I would die with his ring on my finger and his name on my tombstone. When we were dealing with his addiction, I told him if he wanted to continue using he had to leave, but if he ever wanted to be clean, to never hesitate to knock on my door, because I would always open it for him and I mean it with all my heart.
He is so hurt right now and he can’t believe that I love him, but I do. I have since I first met him and I will long after I am worm food. It breaks my heart that I am so broken that I could do this to him. I am devastated that I could put that look on his face. I’m ashamed that I am so needy that I would betray not only my husband, but myself.
I’m the one calling me a cheating whore, my husband isn’t. Then again, I’m not really known for sugar coating things. I know I cheated on him. I gave a part of my heart to another man. That to me, is much worse than fucking someone.
If you want to really go off the fucked up deep end. I consider the communication we had when he was going through withdrawal as one of the more healthy times of our relationship. I look back on it fondly, even if the shitstorm we went through sucked. He talked to me. Really talked to me.
I’ve always believed that the opposite of love isn’t hate, it is ambivalence.
I am intellectually curious about the emotional ramifications of polygamy. I know some can see it as a way to keep women down, or a way to whore around on your spouse, but I do suspect that it works for some. I also look at women’s relationships with other women and know that they are getting SOMETHING they aren’t getting from their spouses. When I told one of my girlfriends about this, not only did she chastise me for screwing up an affair by not even being able to give dirty details and lecture me on fidelity, she asked why I never kissed her. It was the first conversation I ever had with her about her frustrations with her husbands inability to see her needs, how she copes with it, things she does to fulfill herself in other ways. I told her I never kissed her because she never seemed like she needed one and that maybe she needed to think about her approach.
FWIW, when I found out about my husband, my answer was for me him, my girlfriend and her husband and kids to move to our mountain house, start a commune and live happily ever after. I would have been seriously ok with it, everyone knew it. I’m still for it. As long as I can have a goat and a burn pile.
Whynot: I feel like I’m heading down a road that I’ve been walking down a while. It may not be a path I can take, but I’m very curious about others who have walked down it. I’m assuming you aren’t 20 years old and you seem very comfortable even in the face of the flames I’ve seen you take. What got you there? What experiences did you have that made you think it was the right way to go? I can understand if you don’t want to be that open here, I’ll make sure my contact info is in my profile.
A text file that has been on my desktop for ages and my favorite part of The West Wing:
This guy’s walking down a street, when he falls in a hole. The walls are so steep. He can’t get out. A doctor passes by, and the guy shouts up “Hey you! Can you help me out?” The doctor writes him a prescription, throws it down the hole and moves on. Then a priest comes along and the guy shouts up “Father, I’m down in this hole, can you help me out?” The priest writes out a prayer, throws it down in the hole and moves on. Then a friend walks by. “Hey Joe, it’s me, can you help me out?” And the friend jumps in the hole! Our guy says “Are you stupid? Now we’re both down here!” and the friend says, “Yeah, but I’ve been down here before, and I know the way out.”
Oh yeah, sorry for the double post.
Well, what does “whore around on your spouse” really mean? Like, literally make money by having sex on the side? Of course not. Have sex with other people? Sure, it means that. Have empty, vapid meaningless one night stands? Well, it could if you’re into that. That’s never been my style, single or not. (Except that one time…)
I think if it’s not consentual, which includes teaching everyone that it’s not the only model for relationships and not bringing child-brides into it, that it’s not a way to keep anyone down. The problems I have with pseudo-Mormon style polygamy are that it’s inequitable (multiple women for one man, but not vice-versa), it involves coercion and often under-age girls.
Right, and can I just throw my pet peeve in here? Why, knowing that I’m about 20% into chicks, did every single man I date not have a problem with me hanging out with girlfriends? I can cheat just as well with a cunt, darling. But even when that happened, it would be “forgiven” because it wasn’t “real sex.” GRRRRR! Fucko off, “real sex”. Makes me want to scream.
Oh, I have that same fantasy. Only mine involves little cabins where we can have our individual privacy, and a big main meeting house with a huge kitchen and dining/living/activities area where we can hang out together.
But I’m with you on the goat and burn pile!
OK, but it’s gonna be long!
Nope, I’m 32 (today), married in 2000 to a man I’ve been in an open relationship with since 1998. I’ve been engaged three other times - one very seriously, and we had a child together, and the other two wishful thinking. All of my relationships prior to 1998 were nominally monogomous, although there was lots of infidelity involved.
Back in college, I had a wonderfully psychotic and dramatic relationship with “my soul mate” that Would. Not. End. I had a boyfriend, Jim. The “soul mate”, Will, had a series of girlfriends, but Will and I couldn’t stay out of each others’ pants or hearts. It went on for about two years, while I had a pretty fantastic relationship with Jim at the same time. Y’know, except for the lying and the cheating. Eventually, Jim broke it off because he discovered he was in love with his best friend (yes, female).
My last engagement ended in 1996, because my then fiance (Jack, as far as I know, never cheated, nor did I cheat) got irate at me for calling a male friend at 3 in the morning (I had had one of my very few dreams, and it was that the friend was in a car accident. He had been.). Calling a male friend at 3 in the morning was, according to Jack, “completely and utterly inappropriate, and if you can’t see that, then you’re just fucked up!” I told him take it or leave it, but when I get upset and worried for someone, I’m checking in with them. He left 10 minutes later and I haven’t talked to him since.
I spent the next two years in my Fortress of Solitude, convinced that I was just not cut out for relationships. One thing that kept floating through my mind was the same thing you mention in the OP: who on earth can meet all of anyone’s needs all the time? How on earth can I provide that for someone else? And, the really heretical part: my relationship with Jim was really very good even while I was shagging Will on the side. Except for the guilt, it hadn’t affected our time together or our relationship. How fantastic would it have been if it could somehow be that way without the lying and deceit? Then there was the thing with Jack: I refuse to give up having male friends in my life, they’re just too important to me. How fantastic would it be to meet a guy who was really OK with that?
I came up with the following ideas:
It’s the dishonesty and guilt that destroys relationships, not the actual activities with other people. When you’re involved with someone, you think you know them. Their energy, their rhythm, their thought process. Infidelity destroys the illusion that you understand someone, and that sucks.
People can indeed love more than one person at one time. I learned that first hand with Jim and Will. I sincerely loved them both.
I had not found anyone who could meet all my needs or have their needs met by me all the time, or even for enough of the time that I was satisfied. I seriously doubted that someone like that existed - and the odds that the same person who could meet my needs would be someone whose needs I could meet just seemed staggeringly improbable.
The vast majority of “cheats” in my relationships had been for fairly short term encounters - not one night stands, but not with people that I wanted to leave my boyfriend for. And vice-versa - my boyfriend would get a wandering eye, but still love me and want to be with me long term. It seemed kind of dumb to end a long-term relationship because of a temporary infatuation.
Where and why is the line drawn between “just a friend” and “cheating”? Why, if I’m having a lovely evening with an interesting person, should I put on the brakes when the tension builds and I ache for him to kiss me? I want it, he wants it - if only my boyfriend was OK with it, we’d all be fine!
Calling a relationship “exclusive” or “monogamous” doesn’t make it so. If he’s going to cheat, he’s going to cheat, and there’s nothing really that I can do about that, except decide whether or not to remain involved with him through it. IF I believe that he can love more than one person (see above), why not?
Is the most treasured and valuable thing about my boyfriend his penis? Likewise, is my best bit my cunt? I’m not OK with that! But why is it the sharing of those organs which is the ultimate taboo in relationships?
All this, of course, led me to decide that I wanted to try an openly honest “cheating” relationship. I just had to find the right guy who would agree! I didn’t really think it would happen, so I just got on with the rest of my life and remained celibate for a couple of years. Then I met my husband.
He had been in one poly relationship before me. He had a lot of the same thoughts as I. When we started dating, we talked and talked and talked about trying it out. We had safe words and detailed rules (some of which have remained, and some changed). The first few other relationships were difficult. There was jealousy, there was attempted repression and intellectualizing. But we kept talking, and we got through it, coaching each other. It gets easier and easier the more you internalize that it’s safe. I trust him to follow our rules and still love me. If he stops loving me, it won’t be because of someone he meets, but because of a lack of something between us.
It can be very hard to overcome the cultural ideals we’re raised with from the cradle. (I don’t take that as an indication that people are “supposed to be” monogamous by nature, as some would posit. It would be just as hard to adjust to wearing a bikini top to work, or eating insects.) But it wasn’t long at all before I felt as comfortable as I pretended to be.
I can’t tell you how much I appreciate your candor.
I am right there with ya on the “why aren’t you as worried about my girlfriends when I have been with more women than you have?” situation.
I have been in two kinda open relationships before, once, I was the third wheel to a married couple, ironically, we stopped the physical fairly soon and all became friends, I was closer to him than her, but he and I were more compatible. I had a relationship with someone for 5 years who lived far away for half that time, he knew he had no right to tell me to not live my life, I knew I had to do so, I didn’t bother telling him the gory details, but I was waiting by the phone for his 11pm Monday phone call regardless of who may have been beneath me at the time. I was also open with the guys I dated with the fact I was in love and that wasn’t what I was there for.
So I do see similarities in our experiences. Even if our paths parted a while ago. As I said, although it has been joked about, I don’t really see my husband (Mr. Normal) to actually go down the path. It is so far out there for him. He can’t see beyond the sex. He can’t see that I could have had sex, but didn’t. He can’t see that I could say screw it and leave him, but don’t. He can’t see that the two of them are as different as night and day. Maybe it is because it is a guy, but I really don’t think he would be as concerned if it was a female, even though as you said, that is as much a danger as any penis.
I’ve never had this happen, I’ve never had a friend that transferred over the emotional line. I’m as shocked by this as anyone. I’m also shocked that I crossed it without ever for a second wanting to leave my husband, traditionally, logically thinking, it isn’t possible. So when you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains must be the truth. The truth is, between the two of them, they do a damn fine job of meeting my needs. I don’t think either one is any better suited than the other, speaking from a strictly “analyze the needs” situation. When I say there is no cross-over, there really isn’t. Anywhere, well, except that rumor has it they both have a penis. (Here’s a bone guys, they both have thinning hair, yes, I’m going through this for two soon to be bald guys)
I don’t think that my friends marriage will survive this, I have much greater hope for mine especially since I am telling him the truth, even when the truth hurts him. I haven’t harped on the polygamy part, but did have a very honest discussion with him about it. I haven’t been in this hole before, obviously this is something you discuss BEFORE it happens, but I had no clue that this would happen. Wasn’t life supposed to come with a manual or something?
Do you know of any websites? Communities? I honestly don’t know if I’m curious about polygamy because I finally met someone that complemented us so much and I’m just trying to have my cake and eat it too, or if this is me being curious because that is how I am.
To anyone reading this. I dearly, dearly love my husband. I have since I first met him. I love who he is, I married him knowing how he is, I’ve loved him for 13 years knowing how he is. I may have mentioned some of his faults, but I’m chock full of them and he is incredibly kind to me. He has been such a class act through all of this, I am as proud as ever that he is my husband. He is an odd paradox. I would do anything to save my marriage and it be healthy and fulfilling for both of us. I’ve proven to him I would do anything to save his life, I feel horrible for needing him to do something he may not be able to do, to save my soul. I am soul-sick.
I have been very honest about how I need to have some severe changes to continue this marriage. I knew the risk when I said it. I was also very honest that if things didn’t change, it didn’t matter if there wasn’t anyone else out there, I couldn’t stay. I also was very honest that if they did change, it didn’t matter WHO was out there, I wouldn’t leave. When I said I will be honest until his ears bleed, I mean it.
I know, I need therapy. We probably all need therapy. This probably isn’t the place to go this deep into something so personal, but is all I can afford right now.
Sometimes I feel like the worst kind of cheating whore, but this may sound strange, but I feel like I had as honorable an affair as possible, with a truly good and kind person, who was a dear friend, who gave me a precious gift. My intent was to take the tiny moments I had with him and use them to remind me of the things that are important to me that I had surrendered. We spent less than 30 minutes alone together, one ~20 minute car ride and 9 minutes under some stairs. We spent a lot of time on the phone and much of the time talking as we always had. It is sad and pathetic that I would risk my marriage for something that seems so little. I have nothing from him, not one note, not a button, not a thread. I do think I got enough that if I got nothing more from him, that it would sustain me. He was to me, a tiny luxury.
I told my husband if they were both in front of me and I had to choose, I would choose my husband, but that it would make me very sad.
I’m choosing my husband every day. I wish he could see that. I wish he understood the sadness I feel, I wish my husband knew how much I truly love him. How afraid I am that for my love for him, I may forget.
Your total attraction to another guy does not surprize me, I am male, rather older than you, and when well into a stable relationship I met another lass, the mental and physical attraction was both mutual and extraordinary. In my case I knew that the impact on my S/O would have been devastating so I made a conscious decision to avoid lass two.
It sounds to me, and I may be wrong, that your husband has become rather withdrawn and boring. My guess is that something happened before his addiction and that the addiction and cleaning up knocked the sh/t out of his self esteem.
My hunch is that the root of your problem is that your husband has become rather boring, probably because he feels like a peacock with bedraggled tail feathers. If you could find a way of kindly kickstarting him …
The best site I know is the alt.polygamy group. You can find them at www.polygamy.org It’s a usenet group, so it’s not pretty, but tons of great links and information.
HOWEVER. I ask that you think carefully before going there.
It sounds to me like you have good reason to believe your husband is not going to be okay with polyamory.
It also sounds to me like you love, admire, respect and care for him.
It also sounds like you intend to remain married to him.
So I wonder if continuing to satisfy your curiosity about polyamory isn’t going to frustrate you more. Reading the self-selecting sample of people for whom this is working might only make it more appealing and still out of reach.
IMHO, what you may need is not information on a lifestyle you can’t pursue, but information from happily monogamous people who have figured out how to be happy in monogamy. Just because I didn’t manage to do it doesn’t mean it’s not possible.
Think about starting a new thread asking long-married dopers how they get their needs met (or if they don’t, how they deal with it), when their spouse is having trouble doing it. I’d be interested in it, myself.
WhyNot has, IMHO, given you such wonderful advice that I don’t have anything really meaningful to add.
I do want to say, though, that I seriously applaud you for being able to discern that something might be lacking in your relationship with your husband, and for being able to confront what that something might be. When I think about how many people out there are stuck in unhappy situations for years, many times for the rest of their lives, just because they didn’t want to see, to *really * see…well, it’s sad.
I second WhyNot’s advice, and I’d urge you to continue to be honest with yourself, because that’s the only way that you’re going to be able to be honest with your husband. And honesty is paramount.
It looks as if the road ahead will be painful for both you and your husband. (And here’s another reason to be honest: you don’t want to make this journey–wherever it may take you–any more painful than it has to be for either of you, and you certainly don’t want things to get to the point where emotional pain is caused to your child.) But you just keep on keepin’ on, and I think you’ll find your way–whatever that way is–eventually, though hopefully sooner than later.
Another thing that I think is important is doing what *you * know you need to do, not what other people think you ought to do, even if they don’t understand your choices or judge you harshly for them. Remember what Lady Day said: Ain’t nobody’s business if I do. (And, pssst…I realize that “cheating whore” is your own wording, but in my not so humble opinion, that is most certainly not what you are. Just wanted to toss that in.)
I’m sending my warmest thoughts for peace, healing, and happiness to you and your family. Good luck!
–Li’l Pluck, who knew years ago that he could never promise any guy, no matter how much he really and truly loves the guy, physical monogamy, but who also understands, though it hasn’t happened yet, that he very well could, at some point in his life, find himself emotionally attracted to more than one person simultaneously.
First, could you please try to be a little more compassionate to yourself, AuntBeast? No more “cheating whore” talk - that’s not helping anybody. You and your husband have been through a very difficult time together; it is not unusual at all for people to go to pieces AFTER the crisis is over.
Second, you sound really conflicted, and being emotionally intimate with other guys is not going to help you figure out your path in this. The first issue is your marriage; once you figure that out, then you can start thinking about other possible relationships. While you’re unsure about your marriage is not the time to think about trying out other lifestyles.
It doesn’t sound like polygamy is the issue you should be addressing, though. As you mentioned, both you and your husband really need to talk with some qualified person to help you sort all of this out. There are all kinds of free (or sliding scale) counsellors in Calgary; I can’t believe that there are none in Tampa.
One last note - chances are very good that you won’t get everything from one person. I don’t think I know anybody who does; I think it is an impossible standard that people have got into their heads somewhere along the way, and it is doing a grave disservice to many solid marriages. I love my husband dearly; the things I don’t get from him are things that I choose to not seek. I make that conscious decision as a mature adult. There are also negotiable things; your husband may be willing to meet you halfway on some things, but not others. Guidance for this kind of stuff is where a trained professional would be very useful.
I wish you and your husband the best in sorting this out. By most accounts, a marriage that has survived crises like these is even better after all the storms have passed.
I’m in a very odd place and I appreciate peoples compassion in helping me through it.
Featherlou: Using the phrase “cheating whore” serves two purposes. One, it reminds me that the betrayal I did to my husband was terrible, it also beats anyone to the punch. That being said, I’m sitting here, proud of the external relationship I formed. It gives me strength knowing that I didn’t do it for nothing. It wasn’t meaningless, it wasn’t spiteful, it really wasn’t done out of anger.
A year ago, I was so angry at my husband. I wanted to hurt him and I knew the best way to hurt him was to cheat on him. I stayed away from any situation/person that I felt would make it easy for me to do so and I told my husband. I knew that motivation. I was unable to do so.
Fast forward to this situation. I know I have some unresolved anger for what happened during his addiction. To me, it is water under the bridge and he has been a model of someone doing whatever they can. Really, he has been fabulous in all the wonderful ways that he is fabulous and been more fabulous that he has been in a while. That is what has made this so difficult. I know I can’t ask a leopard to change their spots. I know that within the confines of his abililties as a person, he most certainly has gone above and beyond. I love him very dearly and want to continue being his wife.
I believe very truly in doing whatever works that makes you happy and doesn’t hurt anyone else. If someone wants to drink and drive, do it in a desert with a strategically placed tree. Don’t take others with you. I really don’t judge folks that choose to live their lives in other ways. I have a friend that likes to tie girls up on horses. Okidoki. For every kink, be it emotional, physical or mental, there is someone else who shares it. Even the SDMB fulfills a mental kink for me, a big group of folks who like learning about crap that will NOT be on the test.
I have proven in the past that I will do anything to save my marriage, I think I used the example of “one of us dressing up in a donkey costume once a week and eating hay.” The example of the couple that uses stuffed animals to communicate with each other comes to mind.
I agree that we are in a long, involved process of building a marriage. It shouldn’t stop. After the addiction, I wanted it rebuilt without an addict, I didn’t think about me. I didn’t think of things that I needed beyond that. Now I am.
I spent hours last night in discussions with my husband about the lengths I was willing to go to save us. I’ve used lots of ideas, I’m open to all of them. Which ever one will allow us to be happy and together is the one that I pick. Yes, we discussed polygamy. Yes he was gobsmacked. He actually took it pretty well for a dude that recently found out his wife is a cheating whore. (sorry for the shorthand, see above)
I honestly believe that it may be necessary for me to go outside the confines of my marriage to get the things that I need. In this very trying time, I am willing to be completely honest with myself and know that it is unlikely that volunteering or knitting will fill those needs.
I have a marriage with a wonderful man who in many ways, fits me like a glove. What I am finding out, is that I have another hand that is shaped completely differently that also needs a glove. The person I had my affair with, seems like that glove. He does complement US in ways we are lacking. I don’t think it is an accident that I chose him. There is no way on gods green earth that I think the other guy would be any more perfect for me than my husband is. I know that there are needs I have that he can’t fulfill. Neither one of them can separately, but both of them do together. The OG (other guy) and I have been friends for two years. Our relationship was not based on the new, the exciting and the forbidden. It wasn’t about not getting caught. We have been very honest with each other about the ramifications of what we have done, we both wanted to walk away and just be friends again, but what we were getting from each other stopped us. The thing is, we may never be able to have what we had. It is necessary for us to give up that fulfillment to be healthy.
We both still have it. Not because we talk about it, not because we are still carrying on, because I can look at him and know. Because we discussed being where we are now, we knew what could happen. We know that we had what we had when we had it and that might be all we will ever be able to have. We did everything we could to make it be enough to last.
Now, wander around back to the topic of polygamy (or polyamory) What if it is the answer for us? I think it could be. Even if it isn’t an answer that we persue. I am reading up on it, I have discussed it with BOTH of them. In some ways I know that throws me in the freak pile, okidoki. I obviously haven’t read enough or gotten enough distance to make those sorts of decisions now, but I am willing to throw everything on the table to get through this. Hell, I don’t even know the lingo yet.
But I thought when I woke up this morning was like this. I wake up knowing that hubby has left for work already, that OG has made the coffee already and gone for his bike ride, so I can wake up and relax alone for a bit. OG will be home around 10 when I need to start motivating for the day. I can get up in the attic and hand down the decorations and get them where they need to be so we can start getting things ready for Christmas. My daughter wakes up and I feed her breakfast while OG takes a shower. When we are both done, we walk up to the salon to get my nails done, while debating property taxes and where to go for dinner tomorrow night, he suggests a good color for me, we walk home and it is about time for my daughter to take her nap. I work tonight but Hubby and OG are both off. I know that the Matrix or Mission:Impossible will be put in at some point. I’m so glad I don’t have to be around for THAT. Anyway, I’m doing laundry while the baby naps and OG goes to the gym and picks up some things I need, I leave for work around 4:30 with OG’s car. He is such an industrious freak, I know he’s going to fix the light that broke last night in the bathroom. I come home, Hubby is at his computer, baby is safely tucked away to sleep and OG is on the back porch smoking a cigar and reading. I’m glad to see them both. I give Hubby a kiss, ask him how his day is, he says “fine.” I go outside give OG a kiss, and pull up a chair and bitch about my day to OG. I say I’m going to bed, OG says have a good night sweetie, hubby says I’ll be up in a little bit and I go to bed, happy. About an hour later, hubby comes up, tucks me in my blankies, turns off my light, tells me he loves me forever and I fall into a deep slumber.
I have seen a lot of people come in to discussions – especially on alt.polyamory, which I recommend with minimal reservation to anyone who can handle usenet and is one of the only poly fora I know that isn’t full of newage fluffernutters, entirely inactive, or dominated by the petty dramas of twentysomethings – wanting to open their marriages. Very few of them have done so successfully.
The factors that I have seen that have improved success are: good, clear communication; honesty; extreme levels of patience; giving an established partner as much time to think over the concept as you had before you raised it; not going across comfort lines until it’s negotiated as okay; willingness to compromise. It is also easier if one doesn’t have someone one wants to pursue waiting there, but since that’s not your situation, it’s not your situation.
The thing is, if it comes down to “I need this to be happy” versus your spouse’s “I need not-this to be happy”, somewhere in there someone is going to be not happy. At the same time, I know people who need some level of poly stuff to be happy who are in monogamous relationships – they have, for example, freedom to snuggle with the other people they love even if they don’t pursue sexual relationships, and that satisfies their needs on that front. (There’s the ‘willingness to compromise’ thing.)
More personally:
Frankly, the feeling I get is that threads around here focus on the potential sexual aspect because it’s titillating and it can be used to Express! Great! Shock! At! The! Perverts! It’s tiresome. (It’s been even more tiresome when I’ve been libidoless for medical reasons – dealing with people raving about how perverse my nonexistent sex life is because it might not be exclusive if it were anything other than null-set makes me bitter. Not currently the case, thank the gods, but it has been in the past.)
I don’t personally care for the “meet needs” model of polyamory – it feels very cold and transactional to me, evaluating people as if they were objects for use. Of course I deal with different people differently – they’re different people. But it’s not about getting an itch scratched for me.
My husband and I have been together for twelve years. I can’t speak to making a transition from a monogamous relationship to a poly one from personal experience; we were never really monogamous. He’s an engineer, enjoys his work, and recognises that his work supports his life rather than the other way around. He likes to play wargames and strategy games a great deal; we play Warcraft together, though not as often as we used to. He is tolerantly amused at my generalised weirdnesses, including my religious devotion, though he does not share many of them. We do not discuss politics, largely because we agree on enough to have really nasty fights where we disagree. He has stuck with me for over a decade, through several multi-year periods of medical issues, and we’ve built up a huge number of habits of mutual support and dedication. He’s fairly easy-going in general, and I’ve had the pleasure of watching him grow into a confident adult from the somewhat socially awkward teenager he was when we got involved.
My for-lack-of-a-better-word-boyfriend and I have only been together for a little more than a year at this point. He and his other partner had a failed attempt at open relationship back in 2000 and closed it again to rebuild trust; I’ve known them for fourish years. For much of that time I had no idea why she put up with him – he’s godawful moody, short-tempered and hair-trigger, occasionally sullen, and often extremely difficult to deal with. What I didn’t have the perspective to see at that point is that he’s absolutely devoted in relationships, extremely careful to take care of his partners, generous of heart, and awfully cute when he’s sleepy. He was willing to commit to a monogamous relationship if that was what it took for her to be happy with him, and did so for fiveish years even though it was hard on him. (Their relationship was reopened at her initiation.) While he and I haven’t been partnered for that long, the opportunity to observe his commitment to her over time has meant that I have more trust in him than I ever developed in any of my exes, including the relationship that lasted five and a half years.
My husband and I recently moved; we had a month and a half gap between when we sold our old house and closed on the new one, and in that time I lived with both of them. Frankly, I’m missing it pretty badly, the feeling of having all of my primary support network in one place. We’re a fifteen minute drive apart now, which isn’t so bad, but it’s not the same level of ease and stable family that we had, and that’s a pretty big loss to me.
Boyfriend said living together was a successful experiment, but requires more fridge space. I’m surprised we managed it without drama, honestly; we’d said months before that no matter how much we love each other – and yes, I deeply love both of them – we absolutely should not live together. Funny old world.
