WildestBill, the weaselling stops here.

The BBQ Pit
1

WildestBill, lately you’ve been asked a number of questions, in various threads, which you have failed to answer in a substantive fashion. More broadly, there are a number of points which people have made in rebuttal to your arguments, which you have ignored. I’m collecting some of them here, and I invite others to add anything I missed.

From http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=62609&pagenumber=1

You were also asked a number of questions at:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=1180820#post1180820

To summarize:

  • How, in your opinion, does the ACLU twist the Constitution out of context?

  • What is the proper role of the Bible in public schools?

  • Do you believe in freedom of religion?

  • Do you believe in the separation of church and state?

  • Do you believe in freedom of speech, or do you believe that certain forms of speech should be illegal?

  • How did starlight each the earth from distant stars, if the earth is only 6,000 years old?

  • How did fish survive the Flood?

  • Do you admit that the ACLU protects the rights of Christians?

  • Do you admit that the ACLJ does nothing to restrain the excesses of Christians?

And while we’re at it, here are a few old, but striking, loose ends:

  • In the past you have said that atheists have a responsibility to teach their kids about Christianity, so that the kids have a chance to be saved. You also agreed that Christians have a responsibility to teach their children about Islam, similarly so that the kids have a chance to be saved. What have you taught your children about Islam? (I realize that this is an old one, but I;m curious about it, and you studiously ignored the question several times.)

  • You are strongly of the opinion that parents, not teachers, should educate their children about birth control. What have you taught your children about birth control, and where did you get that information?

  • You have on at least two occasions voiced the opinion that since few kids will grow up to use evolution in their careers, there’s no good reason for it to be taught. In your opinion, what subjects should be taught in high school? History? Calculus? Heliocentrism? The atomic theory? Algebra? Literature?

I realize that I have missed some of the current issues that WB is ignoring, but I hope that others can fill in the gaps here. I know that I am not the only one who has expressed frustration today with WB’s unwillingness to answer questions in a forthright fashion.

-Ben

2

Hi Ben. Sorry I don’t have much to add, since I haven’t run across WB too often. But as a Christian, I just want to take exception to the above statement.

It is NOT atheists’ responsiblity to teach their children about Christianity. It is the Christians’ responsibility to witness to others. I’m not very good at quoting scriptures, but I’m pretty damned sure (no pun intended) that somewhere in the Bible is a verse that says as much, and also says somewhere that not being Christian will not be held against those who have not had the opportunity to learn about Jesus.

Can someone who’s more familiar with the Bible give me a hand with this one? I’m sure the Bible says those things, but I don’t know where.

3

Ben, your optimism is quite admirable.

4

How so?

-Ben

5

Inasmuch as Bill’s not one for direct answers, I’m expecting this thread to turn into about as much hedging as one would find in Longwood Gardens.

6

I’ll channel Wildest Bill and sum up his answers into a single word…

“Durrr…”

7

Good idea Ben. I doubt it’ll do any good, but what the heck, it’s worth a try.

Two questions that I really want answers to that Ben missed:

1)How can you be an effecive Witness when you blow off even the most basic questions, saying they’re too hard?

2)How can you believe in something if you don’t understand what you believe in?

WB, ever read 1 Peter 3:15?
“Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,”

Big hint: The kind of answer that Peter was talking about wasn’t “Durrr…it’s too hard! Ask someone else!”

Fenris

8

Another line of questions regaring Wild Bill Brainfart that’s been keeping me up at night:

What WAS in those “Mexican Fat Burners.” Where did you buy them? Have you repented by admitting that speed does nothing to help you get fit? You must redeem yourself from Mexican Fat Burning Sins Bill. How are you going to answer for this fat drug crime on judgment day?

-L

9

WB is a ppure force of nature- you ain’t gonna change him one iota.
Don’t try to groom the mountain, jsut play on it and enjoy the view- he is pretty much unfailingly perlite, and cheery. And some of the things he’s said (O, I forgot to proofread) jsut slay me.

Enjoy him, Don’t keep batting your heads against his rocks.
jsut my little de-valued .02$

10

Great summary! Thanks, Ben.

I’m wondering why Bill ignores the posts that require him to think, back up his opinions, and make a stand and instead only focuses on the comments that insult him.

Bill, please respond to Ben’s original questions point by point. Thank you.

11

I think I’ll use Spoof’s suggestion since as in human nature you always try to the easy way out.

“Durr…” :smiley:

I will try to answer some of them. But some of them are pretty hard. Science really isn’t my bag you know. But the other ones I will try to answer.

I have a question for you? If I make an honest attempt to answer these questions, am I going to be flamed for everyone of my answers and asked to answer 50 million more questions asked by everybody else? I mean this could go on forever. I don’t want to live my WHOLE answering questions on an internet message board forum called the Bar B Q pit.

I try to have semi life beyond the board ya know maybe you should too.

So what about it Ben? If I answer the questions, are you going to leave it at that or are you going to ask some more questions and then some more then everybody else will ask some then so on and so on and so on and so on and so on. (well, you get the idea)

Hmmm?

12

Why not just answer the questions asked?

13

Bill, I suspect that people will have a better understanding of where you are coming from after you answer these questions and take a stand. It is likely that more questions will follow, but not necessarily in this forum. Rather, people will have an easier time addressing you in other fora once your true positions on issues is more clearly defined. Persecution for your views can be expected from some, but that isn’t really the dominant trend here in my experience. The risk of easily ignored attacks is a small price to pay for the benefits of honest and open interaction with the lovely folks of the SDMB.

14

Therein lies (heh) the problem. He has no answers and no stand to take.

He’s just yet another in a long line of Liars for Jesus[sup]TM[/sup], happy to tell any lie, ignore or misrepresent any evidence or make any slur as long as it seems to make the world conform to his stupid book.

15

Bill:

Think about the answers. Think about what Lauralee and I’ve had to say – and others too – about who you represent. Then say what needs to be said:

[quote]
do not worry beforehand about what you are to say, but say whatever is given you in that hour; for it is not you who speak, but {it is} the Holy Spirit. (Mark 13:11)

And I think if you answer honestly some of the questions, and don’t weasel, nobody is gonna be too upset if you don’t get to all of them right away. Tymp is pretty well on target: People here dislike avoiding dealing with the truth, and respect anyone who tells it honestly. There’s also a useful little phrase you might find handy: “I think that…” Because what you think is your business, and you’re the final authority on what it is that you think. Make a blanket statement like “Evolution is the work of the devil” and you’re expected to substantiate it. But “I think that evolution is the work of the devil” may get you a bit of ridicule for having a silly idea (in the opinions of those doing the ridicule, be it noted!), but won’t provoke the amazingly hot flames that the first one will.

HTH

16

What Inor said.

Eh, Ben, Bill’s a force of nature. Don’t make yourself crazy trying to have a conversation with him, 'kay? :wink:

Not everybody comes to this message board looking for conversation, for debate. Some people come here only to thumbtack index cards up on a bulletin board, and come back later to see what responses they got.

Find more worthy partners for your formidable debate skills, sweetie. :slight_smile: I hate to see you bashing your head against the wall like this. The recent meltdown with Daniel~ was not fun for the rest of us to watch.

Chill. :cool:

17

Originally posted by Ben

Ok here it goes…

Ok let me try to correct that.l

Like gee thanks like you don’t have enough questions already. I bet you were one of those kids that irritated the heck out of your parents. Mommy why are oranges orange? Why is the sky blue and on and on.

I guess I’ll do #2.

I don’t think(a word poly suggested I use more)our forefathers were interested in keeping God out of the state I think they were more concern of the state getting involved in religion. That is how I think the ACLU twist the constitution out of context.

Well, I obviously would like to see the Bible take a bigger role in public schools especially in light of all the killing and hatred going in them. But the way things are set up now I think the best is to give vouchers to parents so they can send their kids to school that bring them up the way they think they should be brought up. Then you can send your kid to an atheist school, I can send my kid to a Christian school, the Muslim to a Muslim school etc. so everybody will be happy.

Is this a trick question? Yes.

I believe the state should stay out of the church not vice a versa. Afterall, I believe this is God’s planet why not invite him to participate in it. This of course is my opinion as a Christian.

Yes. I think pornography if people choose to participate in it that should be censored so children can’t see it. Hopefully you agree with me on this.

I have no idea I am going to have to pass on this one. But with the other questions I think I can still make a passing grade on the curve and all.

Well they are fish you know so I guess they do what fish do and swim. :smiley: But seriously, I guess you are talking about the salinity(sp) level in the water. Maybe when the rains came God put salt it the rain for the fish. To tell you the truth that was just a guess I am not sure how God did this. We will have to ask him later.

Man, if they do they do it is hard to tell. And I think if they do, it is just token protection so they won’t look totally against Christians and God. This is my opinion too and I bet a few other Christians in the US.

What excess are you talking about? Please clarify.

I was wrong on this why would parents teach their kids something themselves don’t believe in. It is the job of other Christians to get the message to the populace just like Cruchy said. I conceed I was wrong on this.

To be honest not a whole lot. I have told them some things but not a whole lot.

I told them to be responsible when it comes to sexual temptations and live by the code of the Bible if they want less problems in their lives. I told them that in the world’s view sex with a condom is safer but not totally safe. Alot the information I already knew and some I got from the thread in question.

Still do. I know I am going to be flamed for that but seriously what is the point. If the kids want to learn it, let em learn in college.

I am taking that heliocentrism is the study of the sun being in the center of the solar system(that is all I could find in the dictionary on it) I guess that is fine to learn. Of course all the other things should be taught.

I hope this was forthright enough. Sometimes so many questions come up by so many it is hard to get to all of them. Sorry about the fustration you and the others had Ben.

Fenris, I will get to yours next. Hopefully only 10 million or so question and flames will happen before then.

How did I do Poly?

18

**

But that’s precisely the problem. If science isn’t your bag, then keep your ears open and your mouth shut. Why do you pontificate- oftentimes quite rudely and crudely- on subjects, only to plead ignorance when people call you on it? The questions I’m asking you here have two qualities. Either you weaselled on them yesterday, or you made a point so strenuously- only to weasel out of backing it up- that I remembered it after all this time. Remember, WB, a closed mouth gathers no foot.

**

I think people have already explained what is expected of you. All we ask is that you behave politely, and we’ve explained over and over again what politeness consists of.

To wit, if you are going to rant on about how I’m going to “shove the monkey theory” down the throats of my children and how I have an obligation to teach them about Christianity even though I am not a Christian, then you had better be ready to defend your position. When I ask you whether you have similarly taught your children about Islam, there are some acceptable and unacceptable answers you can give:

Unacceptable:

  1. Ignoring the question, even when you are asked it repeatedly.
  2. Changing your line of argument without admitting that that’s what you’re doing. (“I hate the ACLU because they twist the constitution” “because they’re anti-Bible” “because they defend the KKK.”)
  3. “Shucks, Ahm just a good old boy who cain’t unnerstand all this Iz-lawm…”
  4. Poorly thought out, poorly written, incomprehensible gibberish.

Acceptable:

  1. “Yes, I realize that I have a responsibility to teach my children about Islam, and I have already taught them the following information.”

  2. “You know, I never thought of it that way. Suggest a good book on Islam, and I’ll teach them about it.”

  3. “I never thought of it that way, but you’re right. It was wrong of me to demand that you teach your children about Christianity.”

**

This is unacceptable. Even when you are being put on the spot for your bad behavior, you can’t be bothered to proofread?

**

Again, unacceptable. No one put a gun to your head and forced you to make the statements you made. There is no excuse for you to not back your statements and answer people’s questions in an honest and forthright fashion. But when your bad behavior drives someone to take you to task for it, you stoop to personal attacks.

I suppose that depends on whether you can act like a mature adult. Based on your latest post, I expect that you cannot.

The choice is yours, Bill. If you can refrain from making personal attacks and forcing us to make more of an effort to understand your posts than you spent writing them, people might treat you with respect. Then again, if you’re going to be your usual lazy self and blame everyone else for your own failings as a human being, you shall reap what you have sown.

-Ben

19

Actually, I for one appreciate WB’s attempts to answer the list of questions, even though I disagree with the answers. Thank you very much for the good faith effort, Bill.

Uh, not that kind of good faith. :wink:

20

Billy, I’ve sat and read all of these threads and actually sat on my hands to keep from replying. I am a Christian myself, but I also admit that I’m not the most Bible literate, all knowing Christian out there (much to my mother’s dismay)…Cripes polycarp makes me feel like the devil himself.

Sometimes I’m hypocritical, sometimes I behave poorly, sometimes I act in a drastically un-Christian manner, so to keep from being flamed for it…I just keep my mouth shut…or better yet…ADMIT WHEN I’M BEATEN.

I don’t want to flame you at all…but some of these answers demand clarification from you.

You can’t have it both ways Bill. Either the church and state are separate, or they mix. This is like saying "I can go anywhere I want and do anything I want, but you can’t come into my house and tell me what to do.

Christians DO invite God to participate in this planet. So do Jews and Moslems. God gave us free will. The surest way to get someone to reject a religion is to force it down their throats. Look at me, I hate math, and it’s all Ms. Grandusky’s fault. :slight_smile:

I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but I would venture to say that what you’ve taught them wasn’t positive. Have they learned anything beyond “this is one of the false faiths”? One of the greatest experiences of my christian upbringing was a course that my sister and I took, where for eight weeks we went to different church services to compare them to our own…it was fascinating, and helped us to realize that a lot of us live by the same beliefs.

Finally, I strongly believe that you can be a Christian and still believe in evolution. I believe God created evolution. Our pastor at our church taught us that for all we know, Adam and Eve were two cells in an ocean.

Open mindedness and Christianity don’t have to be mutually exclusive.

jarbaby