Will Biden run for a second term?

Yeah, sort of thought that Lindsey Graham was OK during the primaries. At lest he tried to cut Trump down. Turned out to be a brown nose like the rest of them.

But who can beat Trump if he runs?

Right- running straight, Christian white men gives the Republicans 4 less things to club any potential Democratic candidate with. It levels the playing field, so to speak. I mean, nobody here cares one way or another if a gay black Muslim woman were to be elected, but that’s not the way a lot of the country thinks, and the Democratic party would be smart to recognize that, even if it’s anathema to their views.

The problem is that so many of the Democratic candidates have risen up through the ranks by virtue of coming from one ethnic community or the other, and their campaign rhetoric and actions while in office reflect that. The perception is that they’re going to look out for their own, not for everyone. Unfortunately people are still surprisingly tribal when it comes to elected officials, and more so when it comes to those of different ethnic groups.

In a larger sense though, the Democratic party needs to figure out a strategy to counter the fear-based strategy that the Republicans have been pushing. All too often, they play right into the Republicans’ hands with that, albeit with the best intentions.

Which ain’t ever going to happen, unfortunately.

She unfortunately has inherited the cross that Hilary bore, that of being the GOP’s designated “socialist devil woman.” Her time to shine will be in 2040 or 2044, when her supporters will probably be the largest majority voting bloc in the country. Wish I could be there for it.

As for the dangerous now, Biden, and to an extent, Harris, were and are fortunate enough to have been too difficult for Republicans to paint as evil marxists and were/are extremely palatable to Dems’ most loyal voters. But the party’s coalition is also slowly changing – there are 100 million eligible voters born since 1980 and who are generally not motivated by the current administration. This faction grows in power with each election and increasingly Democrats will have to tailor their messaging to it because they will need it; if it stays home, red autocracy wins.

I’m not afraid of the results of an open primary. If a challenger like Klobuchar (who has thus far escaped the “devil” tarring) demonstrates that she can command enough of the big messy coalition to defeat the Trumpists, then we’ll be in good shape, with or without Joe.

Had lunch with two younger friends yesterday, both of whom are Dems but not nearly as progressive as me. Their plea to me, as the most avid Democrat, was “please try to nominate someone younger than yourself.” I’m 68. They had a point.

Yes, but it’s wrong. Please consider that non-straight, non-white, non-Christian, and / or non-men are just as American as anybody else, and excluding them in the pursuit of the greater good / winning the game is just the sort of patronizing Great White Father bullshit that got us here in the first place.

How bad do you want to win? That’s really what all this comes down to, isn’t it? And if as @LSLGuy guy says, the next few Republican wins might be the end of American Democracy, then what’s the lesser evil here?

I think this one is pretty damned complicated.

While the bigotry being referred to certainly affects conservatives who – if any exist at all – would only ever vote for a Democrat in numbers fewer than a hundred …

That’s a given.

The question – as always – is to what degree voters with a solid track record of voting D and those at the margins who truly have voted both D and R might be swayed – either

  • favorably by the demographic characteristics of a D ticket or
  • unfavorably by the relentless smears against those demographic characteristics by the Republican slime machine (ETA: Or, frankly, by their own underlying prejudices).

I’m always haunted by that Will McAvoy line from “Newsroom:”

If liberals are so fucking smart, how come they lose so goddamn always ?

It’s pithy. We can spend months tearing it apart (as many have done online). But there’s at least some truth to it.

What remains unknown is how much this particular issue affects outcomes.

We all want to win. But we’re a big messy coalition with lots of factions and ideas. Even in 2020, the main unifying theme was Donald J. Trump.

We have people in our coalition who were angered about Bernie Sanders not winning the party nomination and decided to vote for Trump as a result. I don’t think I’ll ever be able to understand the mental machinations that had to have occurred to make that decision.

While compromise is necessary, I am not going to destroy my principles in order to save them.

We might need to destroy our principles if we are to have any hope of ever having a chance to reconstruct them later.

Give us some examples of things we might have to do.

The example already brought up is to exclude non-WASP men from critical political contests. I suspect the strategy is sound, given biases everywhere in the system, but for me it is too unethical to consider, even though it might well advance minority rights over the course of the four years.

That’s ridiculous. This is politics we’re talking about here. Almost by definition, there aren’t any principles or principled politicians.

Ah, I understand.

I guess I can’t think strategically about this. If we don’t vote for women candidates, the idea that women candidates can’t win becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. And who wants that?

Hilary pulled in almost three million more votes than Donald nationally.

Vote for a decent Republican if one can be found.

Voting for a great Democrat that can’t be elected is a waste.

It would be VERY difficult, but may need to be done.

Pete is gay. Now we all agree that should not make a difference, but it does. He does have charisma, and I like him, but he won’t “play in Peoria” as the saying goes.

Exactly. He has to be a moderate.

She is a possible maybe.

It is to laugh. That would be another McGovern. I admire her, but she would be the perfect way to give the GOP a landslide win.

We can’t afford that. We HAVE TO win in 2024, or there will be no Republic and a end to fair elections. A woman might win, and a Hispanic could too. But they would have to be moderates.

Right.

Exactly. In way Sanders caused trump to win.

There is some risk there, but I think it is low.

. . . voters are more likely to reward lesbian and gay candidates who adopt heteronormative relationships (married with children vs. single) than those who do not. My link is Canadian, but I think there is the same dynamic in the U.S. Pete’s private life is such as to allow someone generally uncomfortable with gays to pat themselves on the back for being able to make an exception in this one case.

A white straight cisgender Christian male may have to go further to prove himself a real progressive than do Democrats who get points from the base for being a diverse pick. In this sense, being gay may be a slight advantage.

You’ll never reconstruct them if you decide that denying non white men political power is the way to win. You’ll get addicted to that power and never relinquish it.

The difference, though, IMHO, was that the parties didn’t have any better person waiting in the wings. There was no Republican better suited in 1984 than Reagan, no Democrat better suited in 1996 or 2012 than Obama, etc.

Whereas the Democratic Party right now has dozens of younger, fresher, better candidates than Biden, who should be given an enormous gold watch right now and told to retire.

If it’s certainly damned if you do and maybe damned if you don’t?