Can’t they still phrase it as “winning against evil” in particular, instead of just phrasing it as “winning” in general?
Fair enough. I realized after my first post that the question was aimed at conservatives.
I used to think that Trump voters considered Trump to be the “lesser of two evils” when compared to Hillary, but after hanging out on Facebook with a lot of Trump voters, I’m…now not convinced that that’s how they see him at all.
They don’t see him as being “evil but lesser”. They see him as an outright, positive good. They post many memes or posts that praise him as a hero of courage who is standing up to the malignant internal and external enemies of America. I don’t get any sense from them that “Trump is distasteful but we’ll just have to bear with him while we hold our noses, since the (D)s stink even worse.” He gets lionized, held up as a knight in shining armor.
This. Exactly this.
So, you hate puppies and babies, is what you are saying? What is wrong with you?
You poor beleaguered martyr. Need a tissue?
All the hundreds of times you have reached out to the vermin/insect/Nazi/racist/scum, and they still won’t play with you the way you want.
You poor misunderstood dear.
Regards,
Shodan
True, but Shodan could have come in here and answered the question, could he have not? Has he done so to your satisfaction? I mean, here was his response to the OP:
I mean, to me, this is a clear “no”. Why he chose to start with attacking the “SDMB” and “you guys” (including the OP?) instead of merely stating “no, not I”, I have no idea.
But don’t let his refusal to answer the question directly distract from the thread. If non-conservatives answer the Q, then ignore them.
I’m one of those evangelical social conservatives that never drunk the Trump kool-aid. I haven’t said one supportive thing for Trump, as far as I know. Not on line and not in real life. I did not vote for him and will not vote for him. I’ve made my opinion very clear to all the members of my family, who support him rather fanatically, especially my mom, sister, and niece. Even my wife, who is an immigrant herself, voted for him. I’ve tried to clue them in that they are putting their faith in a man who has no business being trusted. I guess that makes me a “never-Trumper” conservative.
I would be thrilled if he were impeached. THRILLED. I much prefer Pence. Although I’m not sure how to trust most any Republican these days as they have all sold their political souls for this charlatan who has betrayed so many conservative principles and is an international embarrassment.
I’ve got enough thoughts/opinions on this to write 40 pages, but I’ll sum it up in two general reasons:
- Trump does not hold his own conservative principles. As Velocity said above: …“even Trump isn’t a truly zealous social conservative; he more or less figured out how to scratch these people’s itch for political gain.”
He was pro-choice / pro-Planned Parenthood before he suddenly was not. When asked to weigh in on pro-life positions, it was obvious he had never even thought about the issue past sound bites he got from TV or something. He was pro gun-control before. He hobnobbed with NY liberals. Didn’t the Clintons even go to his wedding? Something like that. Trump is no conservative. He just plays one on TV.
- His policies are an embarrassment and should be anathema to most Republicans. Free Trade is a good thing. NAFTA was good. A TPP would be great. Instead, he spends all his time scuttling free trade, tariff this and tariff that (and every time on a daily whim, not some well-thought-out policy). His praising of Kim Jong Un and kow-towing to North Korea makes me want to vomit. Doesn’t he realize what they do to Christians in that country? Every move he has made with regards to N. Korea is vile. His love/hate bromance with Putin is almost as bad. We should be building strong alliances with Western leaders and free Asia. Reagan is rolling over in his grave.
And along those lines, and what gripes my cookies on a DAILY basis is Trump (and yes, I admit, 99% of the Republican Party’s) position on immigration. I won’t go into it here, but I’m pretty much an “open borders” guy. I love immigration and the fact that folks want to come here and try to make good for themselves and their families. Not only would I let just about all of them in, I’d give them a grubstake.
I live in a part of Virginia (Prince William County) that was one the forefront of harassing immigrants. Stopping them for no reason; rounding them up for deportation, etc. Whenever a Republican candidate touted this as a bona fide, I did not vote for them. And this predates Trump. It sickens me.
Well, those are the thoughts of this never-Trump conservative. I’m not sure if I answered the OP, because in all this writing I kindof forgot what it said. But you asked? I answered.
Thanks for contributing this! I don’t recall interacting with you before, but I hope you’ll give your opinion on other things as well. Always good to hear from decent people with different outlooks.
Thank you, divemaster. That was one of the most interesting and thoughtful posts I’ve read in a long time.
I agree, and I hope you stick around for years to come.
Quaded.
Am I wrong in saying that you actually like to make posts that liberals “can’t stand to read” and do it a lot? There is some agency in this that you have. That’s kind of what I’m thinking of for my OP. In that event you are right, the answer for you is “no” and you are not capable of reflection.
Well I don’t start lots of threads and I might have fired this up wrongly. If it’s poisoned and you don’t think Cs can participate so be it. Sorry about that one.
But it can certainly serve for liberals to reflect. There can also very easily be a well worded OP for conservatives to reflect on a real national crisis.
My question still stands no matter who is considering it.
Well in formulating the OP I just wanted to ask the question to the board about whether the conservatives would be able to reflect on it. I have been told it is poisoned but if it is it was by carelessness on my part. I didn’t just want to ask conservatives about their opinions, but about the way the board deals with reality.
Also unnecessary. As it turns out, “hurrh durrh suck it, libs” is not as abstruse an ethos as it may first appear.
I’m not a conservative, for a long time I considered myself one but with so many caveats that I don’t think I was ever really one. I’m definitely not one now. But I do share some values with conservatives at least. Your thoughts above are very closely aligned to mine. Trump is not a conservative, he’s an opportunist who has tried to make himself appeal to conservatives, and in the process has also become a darling to the “alt right” (which are conservatives the way that anarcho-communists are liberals) which he refuses to distance himself from. The way the Republican Party has submitted to his leadership and policies sickens me as it does you.
That a lot of liberals, particularly on the SDMB, can’t stand to read something with which they disagree but they find difficult to refute, is more an observation than an intention.
There is not a lot I can do to make people read what I actually post, rather than have them react to what they think I post, or want me to have posted, or have them tell me what I posted and what I meant by it.
It is not possible to phrase something carefully enough that a person with enough of the right kind of motivation cannot misinterpret it. Certainly not on the SDMB. Cite: half the posts in this thread, any other thread about Trump, any thread about race, any thread about gender, or any other thread that creates a disturbance in the liberal Force.
It could be. I rather doubt, however, if you are going to get a whole bunch of thoughtful reflection from liberals in the Pit about what they should have done, or not done, that contributed to Trump’s Presidency. Unless ‘he is even worse than I thought’ counts as thoughtful reflection.
The board deals with reality by Pitting it. Sometimes it doesn’t work, which leaves it rather at a loss.
Regards,
Shodan
It’s so great that a thoughtful conservative contributed to this thread! Thanks so much, divemaster! Your efforts are greatly appreciated.
Well, I do appreciate that. Back in the day I contributed more to the political and cultural debates here. Back when having a different political viewpoint or opinion could be debated, with reasonable give-and-take. But nowdays, having a non-prevailing opinion (and on the SDMB, that’s what a “conservative” position is) is not just seen as different, or even wrong. Now it’s “evil.”
“I’m pro-life; I believe life begins…”
You hate women!
“I believe in a strong second amendment right to…”
You’re responsible for childrens’ murders!
“I belong to an evangelical church and believe that Jesus…”
You’re part of a hate group!
I don’t need that kind of “debate.” So I mostly keep my mouth shut. I don’t have the time or energy to keep up my end of a “debate” under the circumstances common to this board.
The only reason I posted in this thread is so I could prove that unicorns exist (lol), and there is at least one conservative who can see that the emperor has no clothes. But keep in mind, in many ways the issues I have with Trump are that he is not conservative enough. Before you start appreciating me too much, reflect that I would likely be quite happy with a President Pence. (At least a “pre-Trump” Pence).