No sensitivity, Omni; just some mad GD flava here in Cafe Society. 
Oh brother, we’re not into “you’re a computer geek” arguments, are we?
No, he’s supposed to choose between
a) looking merely to the end of his nose and actually trying to find out about what it is he’s insulting, or
b) not insulting it in stupid, misguided ways.
I’d much prefer a), because there’s a lot out there for him to enjoy that he’s denying himself on account of narrow-mindedness. I’m rapidly ceasing to be all that bothered about it, though. I’m just interested in why such people tend to be so proud of their irrational, unjustified dislikes that they feel the need to parade them in a public forum. It strikes me as odd that all Tarkus really wanted from this thread was to shout “I hate rap cos it’s all crap” and then have the thread closed. Meh. Listen to what you like, just don’t talk crap.
Nice post, Dead Badger. I concur wholeheartedly.
Lest I forget…
I really enjoyed your post too, Yondan. Well-said.
It sounds to me like the detractors are focused only on Gangsta rap, which glorifies violence, debases women and has a definite ghetto flavour to it.
I hate to break it to you, but gansta is just one sub genre. There is a lot out there. Some I like, some I don’t. There’s a lot of diversity. Then there’s rock music with the lead singer rapping half the time. Try some rap / jazz fusion - Black eyed peas may qualify - Us3’s “hand on the torch” certainly does. Spoken word has undergone a revival and Russel Simmons has showcased it on HBO recently. Trip hop, anyone?
I find it hard to believe Rap music will go away - it’s too much a part of the musical landscape these days. It’s too popular, to diverse and too open to change to vanish in the night.
I’d like to add Stereo MC’s - “connected” to the list of non bling bling non gangsta good rap CD’s.
“The Chronic” and “Doggystyle” are classics, though.
I, the pudgy white boy from Philly, have shot a LOT of rap videos. I’ve also turned down a few. I got the call about 2 years ago to shoot a new Wu-Tang Clan video. I sent the caller packing. The year before, on the set of a Wu-Tang video, one of their posse pulled out a gun and shot up the hell ouf of a trailer. The cops show up, the gunman and most of the Clan are gone. Shoot shut down, end of deal. I told em no. I don’t do guns. Almost all the music video sets had at least one “Security” person who was armed ( concealed ), and I just gave em a wide berth.
I shot everything from The Fabulous Chi-Ali to Sister Machine Gun to Mary J. Blige ( with Puffy directing, before he was this so-called " Puff Daddy"), to Total, to the first Notorious B.I.G. video, called “This Juicy”, to Craig Mack, to Baby G, to Jimmy Ray, to god knows what else, I’d have to get out the resume. I suppose you could call the Limp Bizkit video called “Nookie” a rap video shoot too. I could never figure out of Limp Bizkit was really rap or not.
I hear Everclear’s “For The Endz” on the radio, and I crank that shit UP. I’ve never cottonned to the entire gangsta rap genre, it’s just too extreme for my tastes and yeah, I’ve listened to a fair bit of it- on set and off.
More than a few have said it here- it’s the incredibly dense arrangement of words and rhythms that’s always been the hallmark of really great rap.
Cartooniverse
cartooniverse - if i had to find one ood thing to say about limp bizkit, it would be the video for nookie. kudos to you.
(i find the whole fred durst getting arrested bit at the end a bit much though - yeah, fred, we know. you’re a rebel. get over it - not to mention that it’s obviously faked)
and props to yondan and danielwithrow. while they don’t like much rap, they aren’t dismissing it as shite on the basis of the stuff they have heard. the point of this thread is not to force people to like rap, but to understand that it’s a broad genre, and that their own unfamiliarity with it does not mean that there is nothing of value in it.
i’m the same about country and jazz. i don’t mind some country or jazz influenced songs, such as by the white stripes or portishead respectively, but i’m not really a fan of either genre. i take this as my failing, not that of the music. i’m the one who hasn’t given the music a chance, not the other way around. i’ll hold the criticism until i have heard enough to comment.
Gex gex, if you want to give country a fair chance, you can’t go wrong with Willie Nelson’s album Teatro. It’s got some heavy Latino threads running through it, plenty of humor, and a few really creepy songs (I Just Can’t Let You Say Good-Bye freaks me out). Beautiful stuff – and as a bonus, you’ll get an introduction to Emmy Lou Harris in some of the numbers.
Johnny Cash and Willie Nelson did a live album through VHF’s Storyteller series which is also worth checking out; it’s got some of the classics on it (Ghost Riders in the Sky, Folsom Prison Blues, etc.) and some neat background.
I used to hate country music too, but when I started listening to some of the masters of the form, I realized how wonderful it could be. Willie Nelson, IMHO, shares a lot more in common with Leonard Cohen than he does with Billy Ray Cyrus.
Daniel
Thanks for the props, all. Back at’cha!
One more thought: I heard something from Allison Kraus that made a lot of sense to me, as I find my musical tastes expanding. She’s one of those principally responsible for the music in the film O Brother Where Art Thou?, a movie which gave me a whole new insight to country and folk music.
She said that she is very engaged by music which is “emotionally truthful,” whatever the genre.
By which I understood her to mean that music which honestly arises from the creative desire to express deeply felt ideas and experiences, as opposed to so much that is put out there to make a buck.
This makes sense to me, and helps me understand why it is I can enjoy Appalachian bluegrass, the Robert Shaw singers, Sweet Honey on the Rock, and others. Maybe now I’ll be able to add some more rap to the list!
Wait no more!
This is just a ridiculous generalization - no way you really believe this . . . go buy the JayZ Unplugged album, where the Roots play as the backing band. Get this - LIVE INSTRUMENTATION! IN RAP!
I know, the thought seems latently impossible - but just maybe there’s more to it than a 200Hz bass hit played in 4/4 . . . how bout a full backing band, with the beat kept by a live bass guitar and a full drum kit?
Or buy “In Search Of . . .” by NERD (the Neptunes, the production team responsible for top-40 ‘hits’ by artists ranging from Britney Spears to Ludacris) - a CD that was recalled, and re-recorded with live instrumentation - one of my current favorite albums.
In terms of lyrical content, I’d suggest discovering some Talib Kweli, or something by the Pharcyde etc - intelligent artists, with something to say beyond the “Bitches and Blunts” rap is being shackled with by many on here.
Either way - don’t drop the hammer on a genre b/c of perception, give it a real shot. Believe it or not, by comparison to say Steve Miller some rappers look like freaking Shakespeare.
Try this, try that, it could go on and on forever. It’s it takes THAT much work to find something of value, maybe it’s not worth looing for.
Omnipresent, exactly how much work have you put into finding good rap? Here’s the work people are suggesting:
- Remember any of the names of the several dozen rap groups mentioned in this thread.
- Next time you’re in a music store, ask to listen to one of these groups – whichever one you remembered.
- Meanwhile, quit making uninformed and insulting generalizations about the genre.
That might tucker you out to do all that work, but I’m hoping you’ll perservere. Or at least take #3 to heart.
I have a question for rap lovers (early on in this thread I did say that I didn’t like most radio rap), there is an old gangsta rap song-- I do not like most gangsta rap. I can’t get with bitch-slapping the ho’s and brandishing my 9 just to prove what a “man” I am-- that I just love. The hook goes something like: You don’t wanna fuck with me/ I’ll crush you.
Does anyone know the name and artist? It’s just the song I need when my kids give me backtalk.
Another question about sub-genres and labels: What would qualify a song or a group as Trip-hop.? Would Nelly’s Country Grammar be considered gangsta? And what about what I always think of as “message rap”: Outkast, Arrested Development and even Coolio fall into this catagory in my mind. Is this a legit sub-genre?
Should I just start an “Explain Rap To Me” thread?
Sorry, I work for a living. I only have time to listen to what’s on the periphery. For all genre’s, that seems good enough. If rap takes that much research (going to a music story, asking to listen to…) then it’s not for me. If I want it, I’ll steal it off the internet and hope that the artist starves from lack of royaltys.
So what you’re saying is that you can’t be fucked to find good music, so you’ll slag off what you don’t listen to for being crap? Am I understanding you? Um. Well, there’s not much to say to that, really. You have my pity for being such a joyless individual, you really do.
Of course, you’re still not without hope, Public Enemy pioneered internet distribution of music, so you don’t even have to get off your arse to listen to them. I bet you’re reaching for the mouse even now…
Oh, btw: you don’t get what’s on the periphery, you get what gets A&R dollars. And that’s the Britneys of this world, my friend. This would explain a lot…
The name “Public Enemy” would explain a lot!!!
Think about it.
When you say the name would explain a lot, do you say that with an understanding of satire and irony?
And if you’re working too hard to take a listen to the music, surely you’re working too hard to slack off on a message board telling people how lame this music (that you don’t listen to) is.
Ignorance is understandable. Being proud of ignorance is just weird.
Daniel
Why don’t you explain it to me? Tell me exactly what you mean, especially considering that you’ve admittedly never listened to a single lick of their music.
You don’t even know what Public Enemy stands for, do you?
I really don’t like most rap, although there are a few artists I do like, and in the past I listened to it. Now, however, I rarely listen to anything but classical, big band, and/or folk.
And you know what? That’s okay. See, Tarkus, here’s the thing: you don’t like rap? That’s easily taken care of.
Don’t listen to it! Isn’t that an amazing concept?
Moooonriver, wider than a mile…
giggle