Much as I hate to drag a “Cathy” cartoon into this, one popped into my head as I read this thread. It starts with him admitting he was wrong earlier and apologizing, but she’s been priming all day for the argument and can’t imagine just letting it drop. The specifics aren’t important, but it ends with them both irritated and saying:
Cathy: “Men don’t know how to fight.”
Irving: “Women don’t know how to win.”
If I were the woman in question and my man had flipped out on me like that the thing that I’d want sorted out is why exactly did he say that. I’m a believer that just because shit is said in anger, it doesn’t mean that on some level it’s not a reflection of true feelings. So I’d want him to talk to me about it, so we can figure out where these feelings are coming from and air out any hidden resentments before they come out again the next time he gets mad. Because “I was just mad” is not really an excuse and it doesn’t make anything go away.
Hearing “I’m sorry, hon. Didn’t mean it. Let’s put it behind us,” after having him go off on me earlier would make me feel as if I’d been slapped in the face two times that day. Part of accepting the consequences for one’s behavior is letting the aggrieved party have their say. It’s doubly unfair to hurt them and then not let them express how your actions affected them.
Being inconsiderate can be its own pattern.
THANK YOU!!!
Exactly!!!
But if I read the post correctly—it was the NEXT day she was saying WTF. She didn’t discuss her concerns the evening of the issue at hand. Isn’t that the appropriate time to hash it out and say your piece?
If when he apologized she had said 'I understand you were mad…blah blah blah…but your comments made me feel…blah blah blah…and I don’t like feeling like that" Then it isn’t an issue–it is ‘in the moment’. But once that moment has passed to bring it up seems the wrong approach.
My wife and I discuss things all the time, but we don’t rehash them days and weeks later. Once they are resolved they are resolved. We each have our say and put it behind us.
So there’s a time limit on when a woman gets to discuss an issue? A statute of limitations? I know that I personally sometimes need a cooling off period before I can discuss something rationally. I see the timeline above as going something like this:
Morning: grumble grumble grumble YELL stompoff
PM: Sorry. Issue settled, don’t bring it up again, thanksbabe.
Wife: ??? what the hell just happened?
I think in her position, I might need some time to process and figure out exactly what I need to say (as calmly as possible).
It seems you had all day to stew about it and figure it out 
But it also seems to me you can say something along the lines ‘I hear your apology, but I am still upset, can we discuss this later?..etc’ Why is that so difficult. My wife does that, and so do I if I am not ready to discuss it. But if I apologize and there appears to be closure, then it is closed. But if you indicate that you are still unhappy wouldn’t it be best to let me know that?
Maybe I just married a remarkable woman…well I know I did, but I fully appreciate her approach to issues like this.
Translations:
You need to talk about your feelings: I don’t like how you feel, and I want you to change.
You need to deal with your anger: I am mad as hell, but I want it to be your fault.
You never talk to me: You don’t say what I want you to say.
You say that, but you don’t really mean it: I want you to be like me, but you aren’t.
So now you’re going to shut me out?: This isn’t working like I planned.
“You can’t always get what you want.” ~ M. Jagger/K. Richards ~
Since financial issues are not the type of discussion that is the topic of this thread, I see no reason to say any more to you than:
Separate finanaces.
Handle your shit however you want, so long as each party contributes 50% to the rent and utilities. I buy what food I like, you buy what food you like, etc. Not everyone does the whole ‘community pot’ thing. If he buys something stupid, well, he wasted his own money.
Because that’s the situation that was brought up in the OP. A bunch of guys at work discussing how their wives all start conversations with ‘We need to talk’ and then get pissed off when the guy isn’t sharing his feelings.
Sounds like my SO has a problem, not me, and they need to figure their shit out and get back to me. If that’s not possible, there’s a door in my house and it opens from the inside.
I have never, ever come round some time after an argument and said ‘Now let’s have another talk about that.’ The argument itself is over, and it does not get brought up again. We do not need to talk about how we fought, why we fought, how we felt when we fought, or any of that other girly-therapy-bullshit.
I don’t know what kind of problem you keep suggesting, but I’m sticking with the OP and saying ‘quit fucking badgering other people to discuss their feelings.’ and accept ‘Yes’ as an answer when you ask someone ‘Are you OK?’
I’d consider it a situation that’s been resolved.
That’s what I don’t get. He apologized, he explained that he was just mad in general and flew off the handle. I don’t know what else there is to talk about.
Maybe I’m just wired too ‘male’, where you can practically get in a fist fight with your best friend, beat the bloody hell out of each other, and then go out for a beer and move on like it never happened.
I’m betting it would involve a lot of her unloading her feelings and demanding that he know why she’s mad and why it’s still a big deal to her and getting angrier and angrier every time he says ‘I already apologized’.
Obviously he already knows that, or he wouldn’t have apologized in the first place.
People make mistakes. He did. He realized it. He apologized for it. There just ain’t anything else to say.
Yeah, how DARE he figure out that he did something wrong and apologize for it before you got to give him some what-for.
Jesus, is this how most women really deal with a fight?
I think you and I have a different definition of “SO.”
Mine doesn’t include “person you don’t give a shit about who you can show the door at a moment’s notice.”
Just because someone did something wrong and an apology is made doesn’t mean the matter is closed. Sorry. It would be nice if that was the case, but it’s not the case.
I think the response you’re defending is cowardly. How easy to think an apology should make everything bad disappear like magic. But if that was how it was supposed to be, it would be nothing to say “I’m sorry”. You’re portraying an apology as some kind of get out of jail card, when it’s not that at all. It’s an acknowedgement of regret that a wrong was made. And the reason why it’s usually hard to apologize for things is because it means accepting whatever the other person has to say in return, nice or not. Don’t like it? Well, don’t screw up then.
To follow your logic, a law breaker should able to say “I’m sorry, let it drop,” and that would all.
My wife is a psychotherapist. Talking and listening back and forth are her stock-in-trade. I, by nature, listen first, ponder, disgest, and then answer. We have very different communication styles, but we recognize that and don’t let that difference become another element in the disagreement. That can take some real getting used to and some skill at over-coming.
It takes some effort on her part to not get over amped and think I’m ignoring her when I don’t respond immediately. It takes effort on my behalf to lay out whatever’s on my mind and not let it sit too long. Communicating what’s on your mind (good, bad, or indifferent) is the key, and being willing to hear what the other person’s saying (good, bad, or indifferent) can be hard.
There’s no room in my life for someone who plays head games and insists on using the ‘we need to talk, and by we, I mean I’ strategy of dealing with arguments. Call it cold or not giving a shit or whatever you want, but that’s not the kind of person I want to be with.
And I think that what you’re defending is ‘My feelings were hurt, so I am going to verbally beat the hell out of you until you realize that nothing you do is right.’
Seriously, what do you expect to gain when you say ‘We need to talk’ in a situation like the one you posed in this thread?
There doesn’t seem to be room in your life for compromise at all. If you’ve managed to sustain long relationships without compromise, that’s impressive.
Because I don’t do the ‘We need to talk’ game?
There are times when it is necessary to discuss something. I have never had one of those start with ‘We need to talk’ and progress to ‘Why won’t you share your feeeeeeeeeeeeelings?’
Yeah, especially when that’s all she actually wants to talk about.
Nothing more than feeeeeeeeeeeeelings.
Look, I understand the idea that an apology is not a get-out-of-jail free card, especially if the offense gets repeated. I can also understand (a little) the idea that someone might want to express (briefly) how much the transgression hurt, so that offender knows that she thinks what he did was not trivial.
But long, repetitive discussions about her feelings after she has had a chance to make her point and after he has apologised (or explained the misunderstanding, or otherwise addressed the situation) are pointless and irritating, especially when it comes up weeks or months later as her “defense” when she is the transgressor. Whaa? The reason you showed up 3 hours late tonight was because you didn’t like how I phrased something when we were in Jamaica last year?
Yeah, esp. keeping all their money separate so they never have to fight about finances. She’s a relationship wizard and should write a book.
Yeah don’t bother to discuss actually fixing the car or anything, just tell me how you feel about the fact that we disagreed about the fact that the car is broken and should be fixed. That’ll solve a lot.
I thought that’s the thing the OP was talking about. When ‘We need to talk.’ means ‘I need to rehash this again for the 3rd, 4th, or 5th time.’
Just because joint finances are the only way you view as correct, does not make it so.
I get the impression that most of the men in this thread interpret conflicts (such as my friend’s) as a win/lose situation, with a person who’s “right” and one who’s “wrong”. It was mentioned upthread that some men perceive us as wanting to win so that we can use a position of “moral superiority” in future arguments.
And in that case it does make sense that, once you’d acknowledged a loss, you don’t want to have your noses rubbed in it.
But that’s not necessarily the point at all. Someone else mentioned that women “don’t know how to win.” That’s probably true. I don’t think it’s what we’re trying to do.
“Hey, you dumped some anger on me and said I wasn’t doing enough around here. I really listen to you and care about your feelings and your opinion of me. So I spent my whole day trying to solve this money problem on my own and thinking that you resent me. It made me feel like shit. I know I work eleven hour days and I don’t understand why that’s not enough for you to respect me, instead of saying ‘get a job’. That made me angry. Now you come home and do a 180 on me? My head’s spinning. What’s going on here? How do you really feel? And how are we going to solve our money problems?”
Instead, my gf’s husband was just “Oh, I didn’t mean it. You’re right, I don’t want you to get a job.” End of conversation. Yeah, right. Festering wounds. And it isn’t just about her, it’s about him, too.
I’ll grant you that there are days when I need to ignore my husband’s terrible mood, impatience and sharp remarks. Just let it go. But I think my husband has also found value in examining his thoughts and feelings and expressing what’s really bothering him, rather than simply flying off the handle at some ready target.