Will you women DROP IT already?!

In My Humble Opinion
121

[QUOTE=catsix]
And on the other side of things, not everybody works that way. I get no benefit out of ‘talking about it’ endlessly. When there is a fight, there is usually yelling and anger and then I go somewhere else and do something else for a while until I am not mad anymore. Then it’s over.
[/QUOTE]

But what if you walk away, come back and you ARE still mad? Or still think it’s really a problem and could fuck up your relationship if unresolved? Not all problems can be solved by dropping them and walking away, if it’s a serious relationship and a meaningful issue. I think it’s irresponsible not to talk about something if you’re going to hold it against your SO or have it fester inside you if it remains unresolved.

I’ve encountered too many people in my life who say, “I don’t want to talk about it, let’s just drop it,” only to have it come up months or even years later. I hate that shit. I’d rather talk about it for 28 hours over 3 days right after it happened and have it go away forever than pretend to drop it only to nurture that resentment for eons.

I think the important thing is pressing for an unwanted discussion only on issues that really are significant, and not squander your energy and your partner’s goodwill on bullshit. Though one (wo)man’s significant is another man’s bullshit…

122

I resolve the situation, the issue, whatever the actual problem is. If it’s financial, then it’s the finances that, once they are figured out, I’m good.

The communication thing I’m talking about is that I don’t need endless rehashing of how I feel about the disagreement, or any kind of long talk at all about whether I was mad or sad or whatever. I’m not wired to do the ‘let’s talk about why I was mad/sad’ talk hours or days later.

I think there’s a difference there that’s important.

I don’t have it fester though. I tend to work through how I feel on my own and only very rarely ever want to talk to anyone about it. If I bring up a problem it’s going to be something that has an answer or a solution, it’s not about just sharing my feelings.

This makes me not well-suited for relationships with people who do like to talk about their feelings, and just plain wrong for people who insist on talking about mine whether I want to or not.

Anyone who would ever say ‘I’m not going to tell you why I’m mad at you, because you should already know.’ is definitely wrong for me.

123

[QUOTE=Phase42]

It’s also interesting to note that BPD manifests almost exclusively in women. I suppose it’s possible that the disorder simply causes an extreme form of behavior that many women engage in naturally.

I’m so sorry that you had the experience with the BPD woman – I was once involved with a man with bi-polar, and it left me hurting for decades – but I do have to take exception to the above statement. Men and women do experience bipolar equally; though women tend to cycle more rapidly. bipolar cite

124

[QUOTE=Tapiotar]
Men and women do experience bipolar equally; though women tend to cycle more rapidly. bipolar cite
[/QUOTE]

He’s talking Borderline Personality, not bipolar.

125

[QUOTE=catsix]
I resolve the situation, the issue, whatever the actual problem is. If it’s financial, then it’s the finances that, once they are figured out, I’m good.
[/quote]

This is a really simplistic view. People who have divergent ways of dealing with finances usually cannot resolve them with one conversation. These are ingrained behaviors and beliefs about money that often need lots of work to figure out. If it were so easy that you could just deal with it in one convo, why do so many people get divorced about it? I’m sure some of them are just maladjusted morons, but sometimes, it’s just really hard to find a middle ground. It takes discussions, and not about feelings either.

It’s not about “oh, I’m so mad/sad about this.” It’s about “this is a problem, we need to discuss it and figure it out.” I’m a problem solver, not an emoter, but long-term resolutions for long-term problems sometimes take… long.

What if the other person doesn’t think it’s a problem and won’t talk about it but you really, truly do think it’s an issue? That’s when festering occurs. Or when you’re the person who won’t talk about it, but you actually do have a problem and are just holding it in to avoid an unpleasant conversation.

Oh, I agree. I hate that shit. And I hate the silent treatment. If I’m mad at you you damn well know it, and when I drop it, I’m totally done with it and it’s in the past.

126

Here’s a pop psych book that bucks the trend for talk-talk-talk: it takes the position that it is not necessary to talk every thing out, that insisiting on talking emotions out (not figuring out real problems that have real solutions) can actually be harmful to a marriage. For the men who are plagued by wives who over analyze and overtalk, maybe you could buy her this book

connecting not communicating

127

[QUOTE=jsgoddess]
He’s talking Borderline Personality, not bipolar.
[/QUOTE]

Correct.

128

I find it’s only difficult when one person is the logical type and the other one is the emotional type.

You might think that’s too simplistic, but it’s been my experience. As far as this thread goes, the OP opened up with an example of his wife demanding to talk about emotions whether he wanted to or not. I would more likely be the guy in his scene, and I’m saying there is nothing to be gained by forcing someone into a conversation about why they were mad/sad unless your goal is to piss them off.

I think a lot of the problem starts here. One person assumes that because they are the type who holds onto their feelings for a long time, and has to talk talk talk talk about them, that everyone else must be too. That if you’re not talking it to death, then you’re just hiding it. For some of us the case is that there just isn’t a problem.

Trying to force someone into a conversation because you think they have a problem and you think they need to talk about it isn’t necessarily right. It’s needling, and if someone does that to me, if I didn’t have a problem when they started, I will when they continue.

I’ve never been on that side of the equation, not in a situation like in the OP. I have dealt with people who couldn’t take ‘Yes’ for an answer to ‘Are you OK?’ and drop it. You want to drive me away? Try to corner me and needle me about some problem you think I have after I’ve said that I’m fine. Changes my opinion of a person right quick.

129

[QUOTE=Sunrazor]
It’s been my experience in my own marriage and in observing others hereabouts that when a husband screws up, he has earned himself a butt-chewing, and the fight is not over until said butt-chewing is delivered. “Let’s talk about it” is a trap intended to maneuver the poor sap into position for the yet-undelivered butt-chewing. She bigawd has some things she wants to say to you, and you are not going to escape by saying, “You’re right, I’m sorry, it’s over.” You have to be told just how wrong you were, have always been and probably will continue to be, and how you absolutely must change from the man you actually are into the model of male perfection she believes she can make you into.

And yet … I still love her more than my own life. I dunno why.
[/QUOTE]

That was both of my parents’ experience. Mom resumes it as “the offended person always takes longer to forget than the one who offended,” but I’ve often pointed out that many times there’s no offense, just a misunderstanding or something you’d never thought you needed to talk about and then one day you do need to and whichever agreement is reached is 100% satisfactory to one but not to the other. That was one long sentence, sorry.

130

[QUOTE=Nava]
That was one long sentence, sorry.
[/QUOTE]
I’ll remember this and be sure to bring it up in some future thread.

“Well, well, it’s Nava. Gonna give us another run-on screed today? Why are you getting mad, I was only kidding.”

131

[QUOTE=catsix]
You might think that’s too simplistic, but it’s been my experience.
[/quote]

Have you ever been in a LTR where you had serious money issues? I doubt it, if you think one brief conversation can fix it.

It’s not clear she wanted to talk about emotions. Maybe she wanted to talk about why he isn’t pulling his weight with the housework, or is spending too much money, or is on IM all the time with some girl from Singapore. You assume it’s some mushy conversation about feelings she wanted to have. Maybe it’s about something important, and he doesn’t want to talk about it because he doesn’t want to address the problem.

If your SO has a serious problem with something involving the relationship, then there is a problem whether you protest to the contrary or not. Covering your eyes and saying “I don’t see it” doesn’t make it just go away.

What if they think you both have a problem and they want you to discuss it?

I just find it impossible to believe that you have never, ever had a problem in a relationship that you wanted to discuss. Imagine that being the situation, and then being told by your partner that he would NOT discuss it. It’s not conducive to things being healthy between two people. Again, if it’s an important topic, it should be discussed. Not “are you OK?” or “tell me why you’re mad, I know you are!” Real issues.

132

One of my gf posted an exchange just like this yesterday.

Her dh was cranky before leaving for work, didn’t want the sandwich she’d packed (in order to save money v. him eating out), crabbed at her about something else, and then he had a small fit when his car wouldn’t start. She was in the midst of the get-kids-to-school chaos, but still tried to respond calmly, “Oh, it just needs a new battery, it’ll be OK” and he replies “YOU need to get a JOB and help OUT around here!” and stomps off to take the bus.

Now, she spent the rest of the day venting to her gf’s about his behavior, thinking about her job (she does home daycare and clears over $1k a month as it is), wondering why he doesn’t respect how hard she works, making plans for getting a part-time evening job, worrying about money, and mulling over what his outburst means given that TODAY is their wedding anniversary.

She spent the whole day feeling unloved and unappreciated, and trying to figure out what to do to make things better for everyone.

When he got home from work last night, he apologized for snapping at her “I wasn’t mad at YOU, I was just mad” (which is probably quite true). He doesn’t want her to actually get an evening job.

Today he’s wishing her a Happy Anniversary, like nothing happened.

She’s like, WTF.

Now, THAT’s a situation just PRIMED for a “Honey, we need to talk”.

133

[QUOTE=fessie]
One of my gf posted an exchange just like this yesterday.

Her dh was cranky before leaving for work, didn’t want the sandwich she’d packed (in order to save money v. him eating out), crabbed at her about something else, and then he had a small fit when his car wouldn’t start. She was in the midst of the get-kids-to-school chaos, but still tried to respond calmly, “Oh, it just needs a new battery, it’ll be OK” and he replies “YOU need to get a JOB and help OUT around here!” and stomps off to take the bus.

Now, she spent the rest of the day venting to her gf’s about his behavior, thinking about her job (she does home daycare and clears over $1k a month as it is), wondering why he doesn’t respect how hard she works, making plans for getting a part-time evening job, worrying about money, and mulling over what his outburst means given that TODAY is their wedding anniversary.

She spent the whole day feeling unloved and unappreciated, and trying to figure out what to do to make things better for everyone.

When he got home from work last night, he apologized for snapping at her “I wasn’t mad at YOU, I was just mad” (which is probably quite true). He doesn’t want her to actually get an evening job.

Today he’s wishing her a Happy Anniversary, like nothing happened.

She’s like, WTF.

Now, THAT’s a situation just PRIMED for a “Honey, we need to talk”.
[/QUOTE]

He apologized and said he doesn’t want her to get an evening job. If they “need to talk” about that, what would that conversation look like? Should she go into further detail about how hurt it made her feel, after he’s already apologized? Should he apologize again and say that he doesn’t want her to get an evening job again? How many times should this be repeated?

I’m asking these questions honestly; what the husband said was not minor and I don’t know how he would make it “ok”, but instinct tells me that re-enacting the reaction + apology + retraction will not be satisfactory to the wife and will probably only make the husband more pissed off at having to repeat what he feels was a sincere and thorough apology.

Not to take the husband’s side but I can envision some context and tone where her comment could be seen as provocative as well… perhaps she is constantly correcting or amplifying everything he says, or perhaps minimizing things that cause him anxiety. Two side to every story.

134

[QUOTE=Brain Wreck]
He apologized and said he doesn’t want her to get an evening job. If they “need to talk” about that, what would that conversation look like? Should she go into further detail about how hurt it made her feel, after he’s already apologized? Should he apologize again and say that he doesn’t want her to get an evening job again? How many times should this be repeated?

I’m asking these questions honestly; what the husband said was not minor and I don’t know how he would make it “ok”, but instinct tells me that re-enacting the reaction + apology + retraction will not be satisfactory to the wife and will probably only make the husband more pissed off at having to repeat what he feels was a sincere and thorough apology.

Not to take the husband’s side but I can envision some context and tone where her comment could be seen as provocative as well… perhaps she is constantly correcting or amplifying everything he says, or perhaps minimizing things that cause him anxiety. Two side to every story.
[/QUOTE]

The example fessie posted is almost a camera eye’s view into one of the types of fights my husband and I have - “I wasn’t mad at you, I was just mad” after he’s treated me like dirt, said things he shouldn’t have said, and then thinks “I’m sorry” can make it all better. It DOESN’T make it all better. Yes, I’m going to say I want to talk about it. He needs to understand how badly this type of behavior makes me feel. Don’t you think that’s fair?

135

I don’t know what the answer is. I believe his apology, and desire to move forward, are both genuine; at the same time, she’s spent a whole day and plenty of mental energy trying to fix a problem he handed her. And she’s been immersed in a stew of negative emotions - you just know she’s been mentally replaying the other times when he blew up at her, looking for a pattern or reason, trying to find a way to keep it from happening again.

136

[QUOTE=Missy2U]
The example fessie posted is almost a camera eye’s view into one of the types of fights my husband and I have - “I wasn’t mad at you, I was just mad” after he’s treated me like dirt, said things he shouldn’t have said, and then thinks “I’m sorry” can make it all better. It DOESN’T make it all better. Yes, I’m going to say I want to talk about it. He needs to understand how badly this type of behavior makes me feel. Don’t you think that’s fair?
[/QUOTE]

I think that framing it in terms of “fair” or “unfair” is probably not helpful to the situation. What would be tit-for-tat fair would be for you to tell him how badly it makes you feel… but then what does he say to that? A double apology? Perhaps it makes you feel better to dump your feelings on him, but if he’s already apologized and taken responsibility, further discussion makes him feel either guilty or provoked, priming the pump for future conflict.

You are not going to find many people whose idea of conflict resolution is just to let the other person bitch at them until they feel better, although that may be the “fair” approach. As a man I am willing to do whatever it takes but I also want to know that there is going to be some defined resolution point to this issue, beyond which I will not be asked to discuss it repeatedly, and beyond which my offense will not be held over my head in some future argument.

137

[QUOTE=Brain Wreck]
He apologized and said he doesn’t want her to get an evening job. If they “need to talk” about that, what would that conversation look like? Should she go into further detail about how hurt it made her feel, after he’s already apologized? Should he apologize again and say that he doesn’t want her to get an evening job again? How many times should this be repeated?

I’m asking these questions honestly; what the husband said was not minor and I don’t know how he would make it “ok”, but instinct tells me that re-enacting the reaction + apology + retraction will not be satisfactory to the wife and will probably only make the husband more pissed off at having to repeat what he feels was a sincere and thorough apology.

Not to take the husband’s side but I can envision some context and tone where her comment could be seen as provocative as well… perhaps she is constantly correcting or amplifying everything he says, or perhaps minimizing things that cause him anxiety. Two side to every story.
[/QUOTE]
He needs to stop taking his anger out on her and she needs to tell him that, loud and clear. He needs to remember that even in tough times they are supposed to be a team.

I think that absolutely needs a talking over. Not for another apology - what the fuck am I going to do with another apology - but to make it clear that bitching at me because he is having troubles is not OK. Bitching to me is Ok, I always want to hear about his troubles and would like to help, even if it’s only listening, but don’t take it out on me. That’s not an adult thing to do.

And yes, we have had this conversation in my relationship, and you know what? It helped. Not all of us are just looking for noses rubbed in the dirt.

138

[QUOTE=Brain Wreck]
As a man I am willing to do whatever it takes but I also want to know that there is going to be some defined resolution point to this issue, beyond which I will not be asked to discuss it repeatedly, and beyond which my offense will not be held over my head in some future argument.
[/QUOTE]

So long as you don’t equate “held over your head” with “remembered,” since there’s no way these sorts of things aren’t cumulative.

And apologies are all well and good, but they need to be accompanied by an attempt to change the behavior as well. If someone is taking out their rage on their partner, that’s something they need to fix, not just apologize for.

139

[QUOTE=jsgoddess]
So long as you don’t equate “held over your head” with “remembered,” since there’s no way these sorts of things aren’t cumulative.
[/QUOTE]

They can be cumulative if it is a repeat offense, but there is no way it is allowable if, say, someone accidentally comes home late without calling, and then the other person says something like “you don’t care about me, like last month when you snapped at me over the car battery.” Addressing a legitimate pattern of behavior is one thing, but it is not okay to amass an indexed library in your head of all past offenses in order to secure a position of moral superiority in future arguments. The reason I mention it is that many men perceive that women are prone to doing this.

140

[QUOTE=Brain Wreck]
They can be cumulative if it is a repeat offense, but there is no way it is allowable if, say, someone accidentally comes home late without calling, and then the other person says something like “you don’t care about me, like last month when you snapped at me over the car battery.” Addressing a legitimate pattern of behavior is one thing, but it is not okay to amass an indexed library in your head of all past offenses in order to secure a position of moral superiority in future arguments. The reason I mention it is that many men perceive that women are prone to doing this.
[/QUOTE]

How do you determine what is a “legitimate pattern of behavior” and what is a list of offenses? Whose call is that?