I finally read this yesterday. Only had a chance to read it once, and I’m not as up on the Marvelverse as I might be, so I have one big question:
Was Dog supposed to be Sabretooth? He’s a sort of opposite number to Wolvie, and he’s got the right general look, but I don’t recall any clue that he was a mutant or mention of the name Creed or anything like that. And, I don’t know, maybe Sabretooth’s origin has already been done. Anyone?
Spoilers, folks.
Sabretooth’s origin, AFAIK, is as muddy as Wolverine’s. They certainly want us to believe that Dog and Creed are one and the same, but whatever happened to that horrible scar? Healing factor didn’t kick in until years later? And what about his motivation? If you ask me, Smitty has just as much reason for wanting to hunt Logan down as Dog does. He did, after all, watch Wolvie impale his bride-to-be.
Dog’s the obvious choice, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see Bill & the gang throw a curve and have Smitty be Sabertooth.
I don’t know as much about Sabretooth as I’d like. I admit that I could be wrong.
But-
Dog has clawscars on his face.
Creed does not.
Dog has black hair.
Creed is blonde.
I saw no evidence in Origin that Dog had any mutant abilities. Gramps has retractable claws. James deceased brother was killed when he exhibited mutant powers. Mr Logan and Dog likely carry the mutant gene. But, it seems to be dormant.
Additionally, if Dog is Creed, why didn’t he get back up and follow Wolvie into the woods? Creed’s healing factor and enhanced senses would have enabled him to hunt down Wolvie.
My WAG-
Dog survived, changed his name and moved to another state. Creed is Dog’s son or grandson. Thus Creed is not Wolvie’s father (which was hinted at, revealed to be true, then revealed to be a false memory implanted by Weapon X), but his nephew.
Dog has black hair? I know it was black when he was a kid, but wasn’t it about Sabretooth’s shade of brownish-blonde by the end?
No, I don’t know how his hair would have changed color so much either. But I remember thinking while I was reading that it seemed like a cheap trick - black hair as a kid so you’d think he was Wolvie, then blonde as a grownup so he could be Sabretooth.
My hair was a very light blonde until I was 8 years old… It then , over a period of about 6 months, turned drk brown.
All childhood hair color changes I’ve ever heard of have been from light to dark. Has anyone here seen or experienced dark hair changing to light?
Wait…which issue shows that Gramps has retractable claws?
Can someone please expain to me which coics this comes from? I haven’t gotten or read any since about X-Men 312 (I loved em, but the cost to me on a gradeschool allowance…)
I would reall like to know what’s going on or which comics to get.
You can read it all online at http://dotcomics.marvel.com/
Lot’s of other cool stuff there too like the Ultimate line of comics.
It’s from the recent (and absolutely TERRIBLE) Origin. It’s some big ass piece of shit a bunch of people crapped out, looked at and said “Hey, this sounds like a good idea,” and dug it out of the pot and threw it on paper.
It’s a pathetic attempt to explain where Wolverine came from. It’s crap. Starts off with a knock off of The Secret Garden, only the sickly boy turns out to be Wolverine, and the gardener’s son his wicked half brother. Oh, God it makes me want to retch.
Anyway, no, Dog is NOT Sabertooth. I believe it’s been established that Sabertooth is older than Wolverine, so the thought of him being Dog’s son is kind of silly. There was a plot a while back where Sabertooth got it into his head that he was Logan’s father, but they disproved that through genetic/DNA testing, and I believe any kind of relation was discredited. Sabertooth’s just some fucking whack job that was in the Weapon X program with Logan, who’s always felt a lot of animosity for him, and that’s about that.
Of course, when they first met during “The Mutant Massacre,” niether of them recognized one another, so even that is a rehashed history, so who even knows.
But yeah, Dog showed do sign of any mutant abilities. Even if he did develope a healing factor later on in life, the scars would have remained (look at Deadpool. He’s got a healing factor and one of the ugliest mugs in comics).
This whole comic storyline was shit, and I’m sad that they’re already trying to bring it into the main story arch. Maybe it will be like the Spiderman clone thing and enough people will write in to Marvel and they’ll take it all back.
Don’t hold back, now -tell us how you really feel.
Oh, and DocCathode: I’m with TheOnlySaneOne here - I don’t recall Gramps showing any sort of mutation, and in any case I thought the implication was that James was Thomas’ son (and that Thomas did have claws).
Of course, I could be wrong.
Fixed it for ya, bub. --Alpha
Gaaaaaaah!
Any moderator want to fix my incompetent coding up there?
Pwease?
And a few other things- This is the way I see it
Gramps has a wife. They have a son, John.
Gramps has an affair. This produces Logan. Note that Logan and Gramps have very similar facial features and what hair Gramps has appears to be in classic Wolverine-pointy-do.
John marries Liz. He is secretly impotent. Note that Logan constantly calls him "soft John". So Logan and Liz have an affair. Note that Liz calls Logan "Thomas" and he is much more casual with her than he is with Gramps, or John. Also note that when Logan is dead, Liz cradles his body and not John's. She holds Logan and says "Oh, Thomas...What have I done?". What has done is bear 3 of Logan's kids- Dog, DeadKid, and James. Dog resembles Logan too strongly to be passed off as John's son. He is given to Logan to raise. Dead kid is raised by Ma and John until DK's powers manifest. He claws Ma (we see the scars on her back). DK is killed, buried, and the facts about him are covered up. When James' powers manifest and Logan is killed, it's more than Liz can take. She shoots herself.
Re-Gramps
The panel in question is in issue 3. James and Rose have just been turned away by Rose’s aunt. They are heading for the mansion when Gramps spots them. He says “Shut up, girl, and listen to me. If you wish to live, you’re going to do exactly as I say”.
In that panel we see Gramps head and chest. We also see 2 hands-one left, one right. The hands appear to belong to a single owner. The right hand has 3 partially extended claws. On the previous page, James' hands are bloodstained. These hands have no visible blood. Also, James' hands are still soft and dainty at this point. At the end of the issue Smitty examines James' hands and says that they are clearly not the hands of a laborer.
The hands in front of Gramps are weathered and calloused. I say that they are Gramps’ hands. Look at the position. Gramps is showing the back of his right hand, and the claws on it, to Rose. His left hand steadies and massages his right wrist.
Both hands look too masculine to be Roses. James is using both hands to wrap a blanket around himself.
The panel is not Gramps holding James' hand and examining the claws. Considering the disgust Gramps shows for James on the next page (he calls James "thing" , keeps his distance and won't let him in the house) it's unlikely that Gramps would touch James or put his hand near James' claws.
If there not Roses clawed hands, or James’ clawed hands, they must be Gramps’ clawed hands.
Gramps having claws also explains his lack of surprise at James' claws. And why he held that no good would come out of John's mansion.Um…from the way I read it, Gramps was looking at Jame’s hand, because James couldn’t retract his claws yet. If Gramps did have claws, that would also mean healing factor (assuming all the mutations would be the same), in which case, he wouldn’t have blood on his hands. But seeing as how James just gutted one person and mutilated another, plus he was bleeding, I’m pretty sure the bloodied, claw protruding hand was his. Also, why would gramps show, even for a SECOND, that he too had a mutation anywhere similar to whatever James had. If he did, and knowing the first child had the same mutation, he would have most likely been prepared for James’ mutation, and been a lot more forgiving and used his power to pin the murders and everything on Dog. The only scene I can recall where it could possibly be infered that gramps had a mutation was when he’s telling Dog to hunt down James, and his fingernails look more like claws than normal old man nails.
As for Gramp’s fathering Thomas Logan…Huh? Where’d that come from? And I was pretty sure they made reference to Dog being the son of another woman. I could be wrong, but I don’t see anyway a child’s birth could be hidden and the child passed over to an unmarried man without the husband getting suspicious. I assumed Dog was the son of Thomas and his wife, she died in childbirth or soon after, and then fathered both James and his brother. The mutation aspect was all from his side of the family. But, I mainly get that from the fact that James and Dog both looked a hell of a lot like him (funny how Dog starts off looking like Thomas, then looks entirely different when older, and with James, it’s the exact opposite).
Overall, I still hold to my claim that this book sucked and needs to be wiped off the face of existance.
All I want to know is:
Is he Canadian, or what?
Thankfully, yes. He’s from the Prairies, I think.
Had he not been, I would have had to personally pimp-slap Paul Jenkins, as that would leave those Alpha Flight dorks as our only super-heroes.
Hey, don’t knock Alpha Flight. I loved Alpha Flight until they got into that DreamQueen crap and the artwork got cruddy and every issue was about nonsensical mystical garbage.
Basically, around issue #70.
The best Wolverine “origin” story I read was Barry Windsor-Smith’s great graphic novel, Weapon X. A story told on multiple levels, with minimal dialogue. LOTS of visual storytelling. Excellent art. Very true to the spirit of Wolverine.
Nothing’s really been able to compare, since I read that.
That’s Wolverine’s true “origin” in my opinion. Origin was supposed to be the origin of Logan, more or less, but that fails to point out how he goes from living as a savage in the Canadian wilderness to becoming a member of the Allied forces in WWII, or joining up with the Canadian Secret Services that eventually put him into the Weapon X program in the first place. What, he suddenly decided “Hey, I’m really human, I hate living with wolves, and even though I’ve destroyed everyone and everything I’ve ever loved in my life and ruin the lives of everyone I’ve met, I think I’ll go back to being a normal guy again and reindoctrinate myself into human society. I just wish I had some pants.”
Please.
Bryan: did you even like the Alpha Flight issues where they decided that Northstar wasn’t gay after all, he was just a fairy? (or an elf?)
Fenris