He’s…30ish. I think 33. The thing is, apparently he’s had intimate relationships in the past. I think this anti-women mindset is a new development. If you didn’t know he’s said these things, you might like him. On the other hand, when I’ve been out with him…well, you know how some women have said that they can “feel” a guy’s eyes on them? I’d believe it here, he certinally looks at them very intently.
Please understand, I’m not painting this guy as a potential serial killer or anything like that. He’s just said some really harsh things and I’m trying to help him. Until then, I guess the best I can do is limit the time I spend around him. It’s been my second dealing with this type of attitude (the first cost me a close friendship with my college roommate, who to be fair had been through some very rough romantic waters and so was perhaps entitled to a little bitterness). I’m uncomfortable with any prejudice, but this has really been the most blatant I’ve run into in a while.
I have a friend very much like this. Goes on and on about how all women are manipulating and scheming (then follows it up by asking me advice on his schemes!!!) and how he likes to spend time with his old friends but doesn’t like their wives, then complains about being lonely. I am quite puzzled by this attitude. I also had to just say “knock it off”. It is not my mission to “fix” him as I’m not a professional. Maybe you should give that some thought.
He may not be a serial killer, but abusers and rapists frequently have these traits. There’s something wrong with a guy who believes shit like that. If he’s just doing it because he thinks it sounds cool, then he’s an out-of-touch asshole.
It may be because I am an Idiot Woman, but this particular side of him is too important to, as you say, set it aside. I prescribe avoidance of this chap.
If he just had bad breath, that’s one thing. This is a little more important (to me) than that. Obviously YMMV.
Then the logical conclusion (albeit an incomplete statement) is that women are idiots. Somehow, that doesn’t seem to be what this guy has in mind, though.
Honestly, I just don’t get it. How can he dislike women so much yet want to be with one? For that matter, how can he dislike women so much, period?
I think Podkayne’s got the best approach. Hit him over the head with it bluntly. Don’t give him any room to misinterpret or misunderstand that he shouldn’t expect to have many friends, let alone dates, with that kind of attitude.
I don’t suppose there’s any chance he was joking WRT the “Bitch, you can’t criticize me unless you’re having sex with me,” and “I’m not going to jerk off. I should have a girl to do that for me”?
I mean, they’re both vaguely funny in a parody-of-pigheaded-misogynists kind of way (though, honestly, the last time I’d want a woman to criticize me is during sex).
As for what you can do, you can tell him to tone it down, 'cause he’s starting to remind you of this guy.
I have to agree with the scary vibe. It’s one thing to make mysogynistic jokes but your pal seems like he has a lot of bitterness and resentment. Unfortunately for you, that has a good chance of manifesting itself in the form of being obnoxious if you ever have a chance to talk to some women. Or even worse, it could lead to violent behavior.
I have to say - it sounds like this guy is naturally arrogant and sexist. I’m not sure it’s something someone can fix. He already sees his lack of relationship success as women’s fault. It it is a fairly logical to assume that any ‘success’ he had he would view as a triumph on his part and nothing to do with the woman’s feelings/behaviour.
(ie: more like ‘I scored a girl’ than ‘hey, I met someone who understands and likes me’).
It’s not going to matter what happens - he thinks he’s entitled to a woman. If women are incapable of realising this, they’re stupid. He thinks he is entitled to disregard the opinions of women who do not sleep with him/want to sleep with him. He thinks he has a natural male right to a higher status than women and that a higher priority is to be placed on his needs than those of women.
However, you obviously want to help him and think he can be helped. So I will go with your judgement on that one. I have typed out a huge bunch of advice and stuff to post, but it is badly organised and not expressed well. I 'm going to think on it this afternoon and if I think I have any sort of helpful advice I will post it.
Honestly, what I would do as a woman is not associate with him. And I think that’s probably what a lot of women who come across him are thinking. There is rarely any point in trying to even be friends with a guy who has this attitude, let alone attempting any sort of relationship. His comment about his boss is particularly galling - implying that the only time a woman may have an opinion about anything is when it relates directly to her relationship with a man. That in order to gain the same ‘human being with a point of view’ status (in his eyes) as other men he knows, a woman needs to be sleeping with him. This is a primitive and self-important view. I don’t get to have a valued opinion unless you’re getting some? Nuh-uh. I’d walk away.
Btw: ** Love Rhombus** I applaud your wish to help him, your attitude towards his comments and your fairness in looking at his situation. I attach to my post an unassuming ‘How you doin’?
Of course, you could always show him some of the responses from women in this thread. Although that might simply increase his bitterness, rather than make it clear that we’re reacting to his bad attitude, not to him as a whole.
Buckler, I’m flattered by your greeting. “Not too shabby, how 'bout you?”
Perhaps I just have a Mother Teresa-like need to help him. Maybe I just hope that he can be taught better views. Yes, I realize that sounds arrogant, and I don’t subscrive to that policy in many cases or with many viewpoints. I just don’t know.
I should mention here something that has occured to me: There are idiotic women out there. By idiotic I mean women who willfully shield themselves from the negative aspects of their partners. That’s not to imply that they deserve what happens to them or that they’re stupid, simply that they are operating with bad information about what a healthy relationship can be. This was an argument put forth by my former roommate and I hope is not the one being adopted by my current “friend”.
That being said, I find his need for a sexual relationship disturbing. Sex is wonderful, but it should be a benefit (for lack of a better term) of a relationship rather than the foundation. I’d almost wish for him to be picked up, screwed and then abandoned by some hungry woman just for a little poetic justice. I don’t intend to ramble here, but he’s connected to my blog, so I can’t really vent about this there.
I think this is the most important point. Mother Theresa, Dr. Phil, and Walter Freeman all rolled into one might not be able to adjust this guy’s attitude, but if he’s making you uncomfortable, you shouldn’t hesitate to tell him to STFU and keep his troglodyte bullshit to himself.
Men disappointed in love turn may the anger outward and say things like your aquaintance, ensuring that no woman will ever be close enough to hurt them again.
This dude needs to spend less time looking out and more time looking in.
Well, that and being hit over the head repeatedly by someone with his best interests at heart.
No self respecting woman would voluntarily listen to that stuff, pretty much ensuring that the only women willing to expose themselves to it, are, in fact, idiots.
Sometimes the reason why you can’t find love isn’t because the rest of the world can’t see your qualities, sometimes it’s because they just don’t like what they see.
Hey, I’m arrogant and sexist. But if a girl doesn’t like me, I don’t get all pissed off at every woman on the face of the Earth. This guy’s on a whole other level.
Sounds to me like this guy is just really bitter. He doesn’t yet have the tools to deal with a relationship, and he doesn’t see the connection between his attitude and his lack of success. And it seems like he’s trolling for a little sympathy.
I used to be that guy. Trust me when I say that the outward-directed anger is miniscule compared to the inward-directed anger. What he really needs is a little sympathy and a lot of education. He can change, if he really wants to.
The word that came into my head when you described this guy was “predatory,” Love Rhombus. Something you might want to float by him is to stop feeling sorry for himself. If he’s bitter from past, failed relationships, welcome to the failed relationship club - population 6 billion. If he thinks things that have happened to him in the past give him a right to be a lousy human being, he’s got another think coming.
When I was internet dating, I talked to this one guy who stands out in my memory as having an attitude possibly similar to this guy’s. He talked shit about past relationships, seemed to have a huge chip on his shoulder about being rejected by women, had a bad attitude overall, and guess what my reaction to him was? That’s right - I never called him again!
You might also try this on him - what you expect is what you get. He sounds very negative, and no surprise, his life is a negative experience for him. The power of positive thinking is very touchy-feely, I know, but damned if it doesn’t work.
Just wanted to thank everyone for their advice and comments. I’ll very likely have to deal with him some time this week, so we’ll see how it goes and I’ll report back any changes and my efforts to help him. Or possibly smack him in the head.
I’m gonna third Irishgirl as winning the thread here. I don’t think there’s enough evidence here to demonstrate that the guy is the monster some seem to be suggesting he is, but he’s definitely gonna have to have an attitude adjustment before he becomes a fit match for most women – because only the ones who really are, or act like, idiots are going to be attracted to him “as is.”
I think it is easy for a guy to feel bitter and rejected by women, especially if he has asked a few out on dates and been rejected by them. Thing is, being bitter, even if you have been rejected, just ensures more rejection, as has been pointed out. The thing I think he needs to hear is this: If you want women to like you, find women you like, and make it clear that you like them. Not “attracted to” or “thinks is sexy” but “likes.” If you like them and they seem to like you, if you ask them out on a date, you’re a lot more likely to get a “yes.”
I also think this “loves at first sight” and “you can like a woman or love her, but not both” stuff you hear and read about is bullshit. I’m sure that occasionally people see each other across a crowded room and they’re in love that instant. But most of the time, people like each other, then they like each other a LOT, then they fall in love. The process occurs at varying speeds for varying people, sex occurs at various stages during it, and the process can not work out at varying stages, but I’m pretty sure that’s the way it goes most of the time. All this “earth moving thunder and lightning allofasuddenbam!” stuff is just romantic bullstuff obscuring what’s a fairly straightforward process.
I suggest you tell him he ought to adopt Islam and move to an Islamic country. There he will find other like-minded men. He will also find women whose expectations are similar to what he says he’s looking for: a slave / pet / chattel.
The only bad news is they don’t much like gringos over there these days and dating relies almost totally on family members to provide the introductions, so he’d still largely be frozen out of the pool.
If he balks at this suggestion, ask him why. He’ll say something about their situation or beliefs being too wierd for him to adopt. BANG, the trap is sprung. Tell him that’s exactly how women in the Western world react to his non-mainstream beliefs. Like it or not, Western women (with vanishingly few exceptions) are not going to be treated as pets, slaves, or chattel.
For a hundred thou a year (plus expenses) he could probably hire an actress to pretend to be those things, but it doesn’t sound like your pal can pay the frieght. And the dubious legality, not to mention post-employment liability, make the true cost of that arrangement probably 10x that.
In general I agree with the posters who’ve said that this guy is pretty far gone and will not come back until unless he’s received enough pain to see the light. Some folks react to ongoing pain by getting worse and worse, while others finally see that if what they’re doing isn’t working and it’s getting worse, then the cure must lie in going the opposite direction.
The world has millions of unhappy people making themselves unhappier by the day. Is it worth your time to try to divert this one guy, or do you have better / more effective ways to improve the world for the same effort?
