I can’t imagine getting my knickers in a twist over being accused of being a guy - it’s happened with enough frequency in real life that internet jibes hold no threat. I just find it funny as anything that, even in a fairly neutral medium like plain text, gender assumptions are so terribly prevalent.
VarlosZ, I have a fair understanding of what you’re talking about. To the best of my recollection (not having read anything about it in the last couple of years), the differences are not so much in structure, as in tone. Women tend to be more circuitous, more apologetic, to qualify more, and to be less strident. Men tend to be more direct, less easily swayed in their opinions, and less accommodating to potential objections. That’s a stupidly wide brush, obviously, but brushes of those size happen a lot when you’re looking at sociological assumptions. I think that the structure differences follow from the tone, but I don’t remember the specifics of how that occurs. I didn’t think you were accusing me of being a man - just of writing in a more typically male fashion. Once again, no worries.
ForumBot, I am intrigued by your ideas. I wish to subscribe to your newsletter, and read it barefoot in your kitchen while I squirt out babies every seven seconds. How can we arrange for this potential domestic bliss to occur?
I just don’t get where the OP is meeting these women. Twenty years ago, when I was single, I don’t recall any conversations that would even lead me to think that one of my friends was pursuing a relationship with that particular mindset. And from listening to my younger friends and to my nieces, I don’t hear it now. It sounds to me like a Sex-and-the-City-ish mindset and I thought that show was a caricature of real life, more exaggerated than the truth. Maybe I’m more small-town than I thought I was, because I really thought that women and men have sex with people they like, and no thought of material gain was held by either gender.
Or as I tell my children, “Have some self-respect and don’t have sex with just anyone. Make sure you have genuine feelings for them and vice versa before you share something that personal.”
First, there are a LOT of commercials this time of year depicting this kind of an arrangement, where a man shows how much he loves and values his woman by giving her some trinkety piece of crap from Kay Jewelers. Do such women exist? I don’t know. Not my college friends, though I do know quite a few women back home in Staten Island/Brooklyn who love their bling, have quite a bit of it, and who like getting diamonds and gold jewelry as gifts; to go along with them, there are men who think they need to give jewelry or be seen as cheap/not serious. Every year, my husband has to go to the mall with one of his best friends to look at jewelry for whichever woman he’s with that Christmas, and he spends bucks. My SIL gets jewelry every Xmas too, usually gold and diamonds.
I wouldn’t call the women who get the jewelry whores, though. That’s not a word I’d throw around. I agree, however, that the ads do seem to indicate that, in order to show a woman how much she’s treasured, you’d have to give diamonds. And I also know some people who want the diamonds. The leap I don’t get is how that makes you a whore, unless you are threatening to leave the guy or withhold sex unless you get it. It’s like any other gift expectation on a holiday or birthday.
I wasn’t really addressing the commercials, but the OP’s perception that many relationships she is acquainted with consist of the man who provides the trinkets and the woman who puts out in exchange for the trinkets. But I agree with you that a woman who receives jewelry shouldn’t be called a whore just because the man who gave her the jewelry responded to advertisers’ manipulation (or, to be fair, just wanted to give her something pretty because he knew she would like it).
Yeah, I can honestly say that I can’t think of anyone I know who puts out for trinkets. It’s not like the resale value on the Kay Jewelers Journey Pendant is worth it.
Now, housing, car payments, vacations… those women I know. Most of them go by “Mrs.”
I wouldn’t want to guess either way on the gender of the OP but, again, it’s difficult to judge over the 'net. And those gender identity text programs are bogus. But I would say that, since they tend to peg my casual writing as slightly female.
Sorry, I wasn’t clear; the compliments don’t bug me; it’s the piddling all over the floor that’s embarrassing me; to paraphrase - “You have to join.” “You’re so great, you have to join.” “OMFG, YOU’RE SO FREAKING GREAT, YOU HAVE TO JOIN NOW!!111!!!”
Maybe I’m the only one who’s getting an over-eager vibe off so many participants in this thread, in which case never mind.
(By the way, this isn’t about you in any way, A Priori Tea. Your OP and participation have been fine, for what my opinion’s worth.)
Oh, I see. I thought that was an unusual post for you, featherlou, but I understand now you weren’t trying to imply anything negative about the OP. Heh, maybe we are desperate for dashing new posters.
I feel ya, featherlou. I didn’t want to make the OP feel unwelcome with my disagreement of her viewpoint so I tried to keep it polite, but christalmighty, falling all over each other in praise of a theme that is hardly profound or remotely original was puzzling at best and quite cringe inducing. I got a very downtrodden"thank goodness there’s a strong woman to speak up for us" vibe that I found most unbecoming for a group with our alleged intelligence and world experience.
There was a curious phrase in the OP. A Priori Tea says “I own a vagina,” and it hit my mind’s ear with a clank, like a dropped hubcap. I immediately pictured her writing payment checks, before she finally got the title. Then again, Iona Vagina would be a cool user name. (Yeah, yeah, band name, too.)
The words of praise have buried A Priori Tea up to her patellas, so I’ll try to restrain myself. :rolleyes: The OP is concisely written. She’s comfortable with expressing her opinions, and she’s sure as hell not afraid of us. I hope this works out well for all of us.
Honestly, I just thought it was well-written. I don’t have particularly strong feelings about the content. It was just pleasurable to read. I thought that deserved a mention.
Um. And if a 68-year-old lunch lady told you she’d be up for it, declining would mean your sex drive was low? (I have no idea what you look like, but a high sex drive doesn’t always mean sex at any cost. Most women I’ve heard from who don’t get it enough are either on the prowl for a good, STD-free lay or unsatisfied with their overworked, undersexed SO’s).
Another reason I like the OP- taking money and gifts out of the equation means the guy has to reciprocate where it counts- in the bedroom - rather than on Valentine’s Day.
If people aren’t happy with the terms of their relationships, than they need to grow the hell up and get out of them. If a guy is going to allow himself to be manipulated into the sex for bauble exchange and be unhappy about it, I’m not sure that its the WOMEN who should be pitted.
I overheard two women at my JC discussing something similar (I was waiting in the hallway for my Latin class to begin, which happened to be held in the same building as the home ec type stuff - I think they were waiting for scrapbooking or some BS). One was telling the other “My husband got me this points to ring for our first, this sapphire necklace for our second. For my third, I better get some nice diamond studs! tittering laughter”
I was actually ashamed to share my gender with someone like that.
You think that’s bad, I remember overhearing a conversation among a group of young women, comparing the “upgrade” rings they expected to get for their **fifth ** anniversaries.
Re: the compliments -
It does seem a little weird to me that Dopers would fall over themselves to make me welcome. I appreciate it, though, and I’ve seen the somewhat… um… slim pickings for new posters who can string together a whole paragraph at a time in the last few months, so it’s understandable. That, and my ridiculously inflated ego provides a perfect explanation: of course you guys love me, because I’m awesome! Seriously, I was a little worried that I was going to get piled on, but I knew that even if that happened, it would just make me better equipped to argue the point in future.
Re: usage of “whore” -
I don’t agree that all women who accept presents from their significant others are whores, and I don’t believe that I ever said or implied that. The reason the word came out at all was because there are women who will withhold sexual or emotional fulfillment if they don’t receive what they consider appropriate material tribute. Those are the women I have referred to as whorish, and I don’t consider the word inaccurate in any way. Emotionally charged, yes, but not inaccurate.
Re: pitting the women -
I think that the women in unhappily manipulative relationships deserve to be pitted, because they are actively contributing to an unhealthy relationship. That doesn’t mean I think that it’s all their fault - far from it. They couldn’t succeed in their behavior pattern if men and women did not accede to their wishes. That’s why I pitted both the women who behave this way, and their partners. I don’t think that either side has all the blame, because a relationship takes the continuing participation and consent of at least two people.
Let me reiterate the whore thing one more time, because I wouldn’t like anyone to mistake my view - I do NOT think that all women who receive gifts are whores. In my opinion, it takes using her emotional and sexual favors as trading commodities for those gifts to make a woman whorish. And, frankly, because I know and like a number of whores, I don’t think that’s much of an insult - but I do think that it casts the behavior pattern in a much different light, particularly emotionally, and as such has good use in getting people think about their assumptions. Probably I should start using “prostitute” instead, as it’s less vulgar, but “whore” is what I’ve always used before, so it’s what I used this time.
I just find it funny as anything that, even in a fairly neutral medium like plain text, gender assumptions are so terribly prevalent.
